List of flawed ships

[BaronIveagh]

It now has 4 muahahaha! (This is one of those times I feel like Dr. frankenstein or some evil dictator)

No, what I'm saying is that we've changed the turrets on the BB so we're trying to look at things from that perspective.

Edit: The shield/turret proposal for BBs passed with flying colors. It was almost obnoxious. I also chose to incorporate the SC mod into this, as it is very well agreed by the community (and the vote was 5 for, 1 against).

When the heck did that happen?  It's not in the FAQ I have.

If it's new, it's 2 against.  Buffing the BB hat far would make it nearly unkillable.  And I think the community long ago had enough of Super Space Marine Battleship SEDITIO OPPRIMERE

"They're not supermen in BFG!  We'll make thier ships invincible!' these two thoughts do not ad up.

[Plaxor]

Earlier today. Look at the first post.

Both the shields and turrets were voted by 5 (RCgothic, Sigoroth, Plaxor, Admiral D Artagnan and Horizon). Sigoroth feels that it needs a points increase however.

The SC mod was voted for by the same people. You were the only one in resistance. The argument against the change was that marines would never want to reload. (of which they do mostly out of boredom, compared to Ork players who are like 'Please Gork, let me reload this turn!' then when they fail they realize they should've prayed to Mork instead. Which one is the god of launch bays again?

The sc mod is counterbalanced by the fact that you can take a carrier variant.

[BaronIveagh]

The sc mod is counterbalanced by the fact that you can take a carrier variant.

Not really.

As far as the BB goes:

Point me to the ship that can kill it now, please?  Or even the group of ships?  If you say, 'Well, you have to focus fire with your whole fleet.' Then it had better be one per 2k points.

BTW: Plax, maybe I missed it, but I didn't notice dart vote for it.  And all RC wrote was that he hadn't kept up on the changes.  And I also noticed a couple where you put my name for things that I didn't have any opinions on. 

[Plaxor]

Sorry, if I get things wrong let me know. It's hard plowing through all this, and sometimes the way people word things are sometimes ambiguous. I'll move the two Astartes upgrades back up.

And yes, the BB will never ever ever die. Such is the stature of space marines anywhere.

[BaronIveagh]

Sorry, if I get things wrong let me know. It's hard plowing through all this, and sometimes the way people word things are sometimes ambiguous. I'll move the two Astartes upgrades back up.

And yes, the BB will never ever ever die. Such is the stature of space marines anywhere.

While that may be what GW is pushing for fluff these days, I'd like to have a screaming chance in hell of killing it.  

As Horizon (dismissively) stated, the other forums have been discussing some of this stuff, and there are concerns that some of these new behemoths may be a bit too powerful.  And, Horizon, the assertion that no one would ever take it because it costs a thousand points leaves out the possibility that some idiot would anyway.  At which point it becomes an I Win button.

And I vote yes for the GC upgrades.  Just realized I hadn't voted for those.

[Plaxor]

Yep. Honestly +1 shield on the BB I'm kinda against, but I've seen the reasoning for it.... and it makes sense. The fortress monastery, I don't think its an 'I win' button, but it is rather absurd.

Besides it's a defense.... so it's kind of only a scenario 'ship' anyway, just like sigoroth said about the blackstones.

Wait... it has 6+ armor. WTF? Who thought this was a good idea?

[BaronIveagh]

Yep. Honestly +1 shield on the BB I'm kinda against, but I've seen the reasoning for it.... and it makes sense. The fortress monastery, I don't think its an 'I win' button, but it is rather absurd.

Besides it's a defense.... so it's kind of only a scenario 'ship' anyway, just like sigoroth said about the blackstones.

I propose the turrets as a purchasable upgrade (+15pts?), but vote no for the +1 shields.  

And, yeah, think about it.  So far the only actual defense has been Horizon's 'It will never actually be deployed' defense.  Since it, you know, has 12 lbs, and wb str 26 to 60cm... and and 360 degree str 9 torps (and, as a space marine thing, can use boarding torps).

[Plaxor]

I would be fine with the fortress monastery if it had 5+ armor. I mean it is based on the ramilies star fort.

[BaronIveagh]

I would be fine with the fortress monastery if it had 5+ armor. I mean it is based on the ramilies star fort.

It's a little much though.  I mean, it is a thousand points, but as stands, the only thing with a reasonable chance of damaging it would be a squadron of Apocalypses or Desolators.  Anything else with lances is going to get it's teeth kicked in.

Worse, all those things have requirements to take them (that also cost points).  This doesn't.

[Plaxor]

Or a nova cannon In fleet of dominators. 5 of those traveling at minimal speeds at proppa angles could kill it from extreme distances. One chunk at a time.

Also the planet killer and... well a blackstone fortress coincidentally.

[BaronIveagh]

Or a nova cannon In fleet of dominators. 5 of those traveling at minimal speeds at proppa angles could kill it from extreme distances. One chunk at a time.

Also the planet killer and... well a blackstone fortress coincidentally.

The NC might do it, unless it rotates at the start of the game.  Then each NC hit would only be against the quadrant that it hit... if it keeps rotating to present different quadrants, it could take a very long time to kill it, since each quad has 12 hp.

[Plaxor]

Yeah, this was obviously fanboy work. Wanting their sm fortresses to be nigh-indestructable. Hell the thing can't even be boarded.

Everyone knows that Fortress-monasteries have a weak spot. Look at the Crimson fists, the orks found it.

Then again I do enjoy the crimson fist fluff the most out of any chapter (and by most I mean at all) as they get murdered, and are quite desperate. Stories are always more interesting when the characters know fear (pun intended).

Come on, look at some of the absurd stuff GW has put out lately;

30 space wolves jumping from an exploding strike cruiser to a chaos ship, taking it over and killing the other ships? I mean... there are so many logical issues with that it is just... wrong. How the hell does a space marine jump several thousand miles in a reasonable amount of time, trying to hit something that is so far away at best it looks like the head of a needle, calculate where it will be. Not only that but the immense radiation and heat released from the blast would kill them, I don't care how resistant to death they are. Radiation kills everything forever.

Then there's the fact that in order to get to the chaos ship in time they would need to travel at several thousand miles per hour, meaning when they hit the ship they would have a fly on the windshield scenario. Again I don't care how resistant to thousand mile-per hour impacts you are.

Oh and then they smash through the hull with powerfists, well this I can accept, but the fact that when the ship depressurizes it will launch them into space! Then they kill the entire crew of a chaos cruiser, sure, then fire its weapons on the rest of the chaos battlegroup destroying them. How the hell do they load and aim the weapons? It takes several thousand crew to just operate the basic functions of a cruiser, so they would be stuck in an empty ship waiting to die.

Also why were the chaos generals dumb enough to wait around while their ship gets cleaned out by these 30 space marines? Presumably this would take hours, assuming there are 90,000 crew aboard, and each of the 30 space marines can kill 1 every 2 seconds it would take them an hour and a half. Long enough for the captain to notify the fleet.

I am just amazed about some things GW puts out.

And there

[horizon]

I don't know for sure but I recall that their has been a rule that a blastmarker counts as allround on the Ramilies. Thus a shield drop on all quadrants at once. And something else.


I still don't find the thing overpowered.

[horizon]

To add: all space stations and alike (apart of the monastry) are MASSIVELY underpowered.

[BaronIveagh]

Yeah, this was obviously fanboy work. Wanting their sm fortresses to be nigh-indestructable. Hell the thing can't even be boarded.

Everyone knows that Fortress-monasteries have a weak spot. Look at the Crimson fists, the orks found it.

Then again I do enjoy the crimson fist fluff the most out of any chapter (and by most I mean at all) as they get murdered, and are quite desperate. Stories are always more interesting when the characters know fear (pun intended).

Come on, look at some of the absurd stuff GW has put out lately;

30 space wolves jumping from an exploding strike cruiser to a chaos ship, taking it over and killing the other ships? I mean... there are so many logical issues with that it is just... wrong. How the hell does a space marine jump several thousand miles in a reasonable amount of time, trying to hit something that is so far away at best it looks like the head of a needle, calculate where it will be. Not only that but the immense radiation and heat released from the blast would kill them, I don't care how resistant to death they are. Radiation kills everything forever.

Then there's the fact that in order to get to the chaos ship in time they would need to travel at several thousand miles per hour, meaning when they hit the ship they would have a fly on the windshield scenario. Again I don't care how resistant to thousand mile-per hour impacts you are.

Oh and then they smash through the hull with powerfists, well this I can accept, but the fact that when the ship depressurizes it will launch them into space! Then they kill the entire crew of a chaos cruiser, sure, then fire its weapons on the rest of the chaos battlegroup destroying them. How the hell do they load and aim the weapons? It takes several thousand crew to just operate the basic functions of a cruiser, so they would be stuck in an empty ship waiting to die.

Also why were the chaos generals dumb enough to wait around while their ship gets cleaned out by these 30 space marines? Presumably this would take hours, assuming there are 90,000 crew aboard, and each of the 30 space marines can kill 1 every 2 seconds it would take them an hour and a half. Long enough for the captain to notify the fleet.

I am just amazed about some things GW puts out.

And there

And don't forget how 'extra' awesome they are if they're Ultramarines!  (Who, for reasons beyond me, never think to rig the tunnel they're gaurding to collapse, despite that they're a single company fighting an entire legion in Gerro: Oath of Moment.)


I liked Emperor's Finest, as the only character that gets a name that get's killed is a space marine terminator, and you see a few others get killed too.  

By genestealers...

...on a space hulk....  

This sounds familiar, somehow...


http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/527363