List of flawed ships

[horizon]

Hi Plaxor,

I think you should add a big disclaimer on the front of these pdf's being unofficial and all.
Now they are to easily mistaken for the official ones.

[Plaxor]

Yeah, I need to do that....

[RelicJoo64]

Hey Plaxor,

great work on all your lists, really appreicate it.  I'm an Ork player from way back, and with your updated fleet lists are getting back into BFG.  I think what you have created is helpful and makes the BFG (and the Orks) more balanced and enjoyable to play.

2 questions about the Orks Flawed Ships, 1stly the PDF reflects the Terror Ship having only 1 turrent, but your list states 2 in this thread, just wanting to confirm what the value should be?

2ndly the cost of the Ravager Attack Ship? is it 35 or 40?

Thanks,

Keep up the good work.

RJ64.

[Plaxor]

Hey RelicJoo,

Thanks for the feedback. The Terror Ship should have 2 turrets, and the ravager is still 40 points, but it will likely be getting LFR on its guns. The Ravager is decent for 40 points, but too good for 35.

The Ork pdf was the first that I built (while I was still learning how to use photoshop. I really need to rework it, but unfortunately it will likely be the last to be revised. However the rules are fairly... solid.

Most people who have played Orks quit them because they couldn't win with them, outside of being very dependent on boarding actions or ordinance. (which is true if you read any tactica)

Orks can't win a straight up gun-fight, which they should be able to do. A one-on-one cruiser fight no, but the fact is that they have more ships, so overall it should be similar.

The great thing about BFG is that the rules are all available online, and almost all players play in a small close knit community, so using such a ruleset is a lot more plausible.

Not only that but BFG is becoming too large/unorganized for new players to make sense of it. Rewriting it like this will make it simpler to see. Also when you rewrite the entire game system instead of just a few things it makes it much more apparent.

As far as my design philosophy.... well mostly it's mathematically based (as you can see in the 'ork flawed ships.75' document) but for the most part it's bidding, a lot of upgrades are auto-include (like torpedoes on ork kroozers) so the question is what would a person pay for such an upgrade. And with review of several veteran players, we can make a less static system of fleet building, meaning that a lot of the options never used can become more usable.

Hopefully I will have updated all the Pdfs to their final versions before the end of next week. Then on to building the Defense pdf (which will really clear up how defenses work and what individual fleets can take). After that rules, and finally campaigns/missions.

[lastspartacus]

So what is the rationale for the Warden in the more advanced Kororvesh?

A faster ship than then Orca was needed, and armor was sacrificed for that and a rotating lance?

My personal vote is actually somehow making it better than the Orca, like friggin deflector shields (lol).

I like the idea of a 20 point  4+ Warden, but I'm also cool with the idea of Kororvesh 'just having a bit better Orca'
because of fluff.

And, is the Iconoclast 25 now?

[Plaxor]

yes. it has been for a while.

On that note, hows about 30 points with a prow deflector and 4+ armor?

[horizon]

No way.
No PD on a Warden.

Somehow 5+ armour can be justified:
it is so small it is hard to hit, thus higher armour value in an abstract way.
(Like Necron armour represents Stealth).

[Dark Depths]

Not only that but BFG is becoming too large/unorganized for new players to make sense of it. Rewriting it like this will make it simpler to see. Also when you rewrite the entire game system instead of just a few things it makes it much more apparent.

You're telling me!  Its difficult enough for an old timer like me to keep up! Which is what i love about BFG, it is still thriving, and being updated, thanks to the community's efforts.

[horizon]

Not only that but BFG is becoming too large/unorganized for new players to make sense of it. Rewriting it like this will make it simpler to see. Also when you rewrite the entire game system instead of just a few things it makes it much more apparent.

Hi,

for new players:

  i. everything on the GW website is official.
 ii. the url from the HA (flybywire) is the place for drafts (official development).
iii. everything else is unofficial (eg old magazins, fanatic online, Plaxor-Pdf's, Book of Nemesis, Distant Sun, Eldar MMS, Warp Rift, etc)

So I do not understand what you say.

[Plaxor]

Horizon,

It's just confusing looking through so many documents to know what to use for your fleet, and having to read all the things about ordinance that are old rules etc. Rather than just update the faq into the rulebook, seemed better to do revisions of my own.

I'll admit, the original intention of this document was to simplify and answer a lot of questions in the Official documents. Our gaming group decided to do this, as most of them are new, and we wanted to write a freshly balanced ruleset that would work for our group.

With this we could determine what was 'official' for our set of rules, increasing the number of ships and making things a bit more varied, giving specific rules on how one includes a currently optional ship or a different style of race. Our group consists of a lot of new players, so writing it this way makes it very easy.

It works because none of us will ever be going to a BFG tournament, unless we run one, in which case we will be using our set of rules. Also certain fleets that were uncompetitive, can be made that way, so that a player who wants to use them won't feel like their lacking something etc.

I being the most veteran player, and having payed attention to the forums for years, went about with my plan... to use the forums and the opinions of other veteran players to help me build the rules for this monstrosity.

Then I can leave a link for other groups if they want to use it. 

[Plaxor]

Posted Traitor Fleets 1.1

Added the 'new' ship types, of course only added them to the Maelstrom fleet list, which I tried to make CLs as viable as possible.

Note that the Cls weren't balanced against the Dauntless, more the Slaughter. The Dauntless provides a cheap cruiser option in the IN lists, which helps with smaller craft and adds mobility to the IN fleet (which is where most of its cost comes from), they were balanced internally against other chaos cruiser options.

The Maelstrom fleet, should meet all the random demands that I got for the chaos list... including adding cls and a strike cruiser option. With similar limitations to the 'Tartanus Sector' fleet it should have an interesting fluff feel, once I get around to writing the background for that sector.

In this list, cruisers can only be taken for every CL/Escort squadron (as the Maelstrom fleet is more of a wolfpack than anything else) this should force players to take the CLs, even though they are less viable than a slaughter.

I added the Relictor class battleship, which is based off the stats for the Conqueror, and should help make a CL based list more viable. Also the Nephilim, which is just a 'for fun' addition. The Havoc fit here as well, as the name feels more chaosy than Imperial.

This list looks like it will make a more interesting Slaughter-based fleet, as there are a lot more short ranged fast options than normally available to Chaos.


Also I reduced the cost of the Blackstone to 550, but this might change to 600. 6+ armor on a defense is like 5+ armor on anything else, so it is quite comparable to the planet-killer, but with less weaponry (mind you better weaponry) however as it can't go on special orders, and suffers an additional point of damage for every critical.... it is quite a bit less 'good' seeming.

Which reminds me, I need to ask Nate how criticals work on the blackstones....

[Plaxor]

@RelicJoo


I had a thought on Ork Battleships a while back, somewhat influenced by Sigoroth.


I was considering making the Ork battleships into a single class, (or possibly 2 classes)

Kroolship Class Battleship: (standard battleship stats)  255 pts

Battleship/12   20cm  45'  6+/5+  2  3

Prow Guns   D6+6@45cm
P/S Guns  D6+6@30cm
Dorsal launch bays D3+1
P/S Heavy Guns Str, 6

Select one prow weapons system (for the cost)
Prow Torpedo Launcha Str D6+4  +10 points
Prow Heavy Guns Str 6  Free
Prow Bombardment Cannon Str.6@30cm  +20pts
Prow Lances Str. D3+2@45cm +30pts

Select either upgrade (or both):
Soopa engines (reduces the strength of the p/s guns by 2) Free
Launch bays Str.2 each side (reduces the strength of the p/s guns by 4) +40pts


That basically would make it so you could build any current battleship for the exact same points cost that already is in place, and most Ork players don't consider the 'character ships' characters anyways.

Now there could be some additional upgrades, namely P/S torpedoes (although it doesn't seem like even orks would do that to a battleship...), drills/spikes, and grabba claws, although all of these don't really feel battleship like.

Then there is the Demand for larger Ork battlehips.... well if this system were in place, it would simply be a +30 point upgrade for an additional 2 hits. I don't think any firepower should be gained if this were added to the system. Just mass.

[Plaxor]

So experimenting with ideas for a larger variety of Ork battleship:


Towards the end of the Ork vessel timeline exists something so large that it even dwarfs Imperial Battleships, after hundreds or even thousands of years and innumerable refits, these vessels, like all ork vessels, gain mass and new salvaged parts from their victories. If an ork Kroozer survives long enough (meaning it wins enough battles) then eventually it will too reach 'deadnaught' size. Only three of these vessels have ever been recorded in Imperial record. One was known battling the Tyranids in the eastern fringe. Another, the Pyre is flagship of the Arch Arsonist. The third belongs to Ghazghull, and through his continued victories has managed to gain substantial mass.

Ork Deadnaugt class battleship: 450pts

Type/Hits        Speed/Turns    Armor   Shields   Turrets
Battleship/14       15/45'         6+/5+      3          3


Prow Guns    2d6+6@45cm
Prow Lances  D3+2@45cm
Prow Heavy Guns 6@15
Port/Stbd Guns  2D6+4@30cm
Port/Stbd Heavy Guns 6@15
Dorsal Launch bays  D3+1


May reduce the strength of p/s guns by D6 for 2 launch bays each side for +40pts
May reduce the strength of p/s guns by 4 for soopa engines.
May replace prow heavy guns with a Str. D6+6 torpedo salvo for +20pts


On that note, Snagrod The Arch-Arsonist:   180pts

Snagrod can yell really loudly, so his vessel receives +1 leadership.

Fan-of-Fire, whenever a vessel in Snagrod's fleet suffers a fire critical, its leadership becomes 10 until repaired.

[Plaxor]

Updated IN fleets. Although I think I lost admech refits in it somewhere...

Resolved nearly all the visual/layout issues.

[Valhallan]

btw. there are discrepancies between your chaos fleet lists and the costs listed for their detail entries. going through the rest of it....soon.
and ork bb and dready ideas are pretty rad. fit in super well.