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Author Topic: List of flawed ships  (Read 290179 times)

Offline RCgothic

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1080 on: March 16, 2011, 03:40:47 PM »
Given the near-universal agreement in the other thread that even with a 10pt discount a Murder doesn't stand up to a Carnage, should we be doing anything to help the Murder?

Various proposals I've pulled off the top of my head and not really thought through to conclusion:

Option1:
165pts for Murder.

Option2:
FP12 for Murder

Option3:
R60 for a proportion/all of the Murder's broadsides.
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Offline Taggerung

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1081 on: March 16, 2011, 04:40:20 PM »
Raise the cost of the carnage?
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Offline left of west

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1082 on: March 16, 2011, 04:51:06 PM »
LFR the Murder's prow lances, bump the price to 190.  Get rid of the variant with the broadside lances.  Up all of the Carnage's broadside guns to 60cm and move it up to 190, too.  That'd put them pretty close together. 
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Offline RCgothic

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1083 on: March 16, 2011, 07:28:23 PM »
LFR was rejected in discussions earlier in the thread or possibly in the Chaos ships thread when the FAQ was under discussion. The two ships have unique playstyles that would be compromised by LFR Lances.
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Offline left of west

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1084 on: March 16, 2011, 09:02:39 PM »
Fair enough.  I don't really think the Murder's "unique playstyle" is something that really needs to be coddled along, but you're not obligated to take my suggestions. 

In that case, yeah--maybe 12 strength batteries on the sides.  Give the lance variant 60cm lances instead of 45, perhaps. 
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Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1085 on: March 16, 2011, 10:25:33 PM »
Bumping the Carnage to 190 should be enough. I think it is that much more effective than the Murder. I don't think bumping the Murder's broadside to 12 while still retaining points cost would still be enough to narrow the gap as the Carnage can still focus more firepower per broadside.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 10:27:45 PM by Admiral_d_Artagnan »
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Offline Taggerung

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1086 on: March 16, 2011, 11:47:47 PM »
Chaos ships are pretty cheap for the amount of fire power than can bring to bear...so lowering them shouldn't be on the table, nor should increasing their firepower to near BB level.
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Offline horizon

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1087 on: March 17, 2011, 03:55:27 AM »
No changes to Murder and / or Carnage.
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Offline RCgothic

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1088 on: March 17, 2011, 07:24:01 AM »
But as this project is a rebalance and we've agreed on a more than 10pt disparity, surely we should do something?
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Offline horizon

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1089 on: March 17, 2011, 07:25:12 AM »
Why?
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Offline RCgothic

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1090 on: March 17, 2011, 09:02:01 AM »
Because fixing sub par or overpowered ships is the whole point of a rebalance. If the Murder is only more useful than the Carnage in a few niche situations and the Carnage is not itself overpowered (which it isn't - 26WBs vs a Lunar's 33WBe), then there is a problem with the Murder and problem ships get fixed.

I would favour a 5pt price break on the Murder.
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Offline horizon

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1091 on: March 17, 2011, 09:08:36 AM »
Hey,

did you check that gunnery thread?

I see people favouring Murders over Carnages. What would happen if we made the Murder even cheaper?

At the moment I think the +10pts are justified & correct for what the ships do.
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Offline RCgothic

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1092 on: March 17, 2011, 10:01:03 AM »
Yes, and that's why I brought it up. Even Phthis doesn't think the standard murder is worth the 10pts you save by not taking a Carnage.
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Offline commander

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1093 on: March 17, 2011, 12:58:39 PM »
Murder/Carnage: no reduction in point cost there. Chaos is allready too cheap for what you get.
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Offline Phthisis

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Re: List of flawed ships
« Reply #1094 on: March 19, 2011, 02:11:01 AM »
Just make the Cerberus available universally and this is issue becomes moot. ;)
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