Book of Nemesis?

[BaronIveagh]

Chaos doesnt at all need a light cruiser, yes.  Thats why there is no problem if people want to include one in their fleet, for flavor, per 1500 points.
The arguments against are quite silly

Thats actually my favorite part of the book.  My lil' Heretic class is so cute. ^^

Ironically, by a lot of the logic used for reasons against, necrons don't need a light cruiser either, but they have one.

[horizon]

As mentioned per new rules (FAQ? or Draft...? forgot) Chaos can take 1 Imperial Navy ship per 1000pts. Thus a light cruiser available to Chaos.

Also fluffwise anyone could take any Imperial Navy fleet and call it renegade. Take a Bastion list with reserve Chaos vessels etc and you have a nice fluffy renegade fleet with IN/Chaos mix.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Ironically, by a lot of the logic used for reasons against, necrons don't need a light cruiser either, but they have one.

Necrons don't have a Slaughter.

[BaronIveagh]

Ironically, by a lot of the logic used for reasons against, necrons don't need a light cruiser either, but they have one.

Necrons don't have a Slaughter.

Why take a slaughter when you have the Scythe?  I'd rather they just had the slaughter at that point...

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Ironically, by a lot of the logic used for reasons against, necrons don't need a light cruiser either, but they have one.

Necrons don't have a Slaughter.

Why take a slaughter when you have the Scythe?  I'd rather they just had the slaughter at that point...

Because the Scythe is the only default regular-sized cruiser they have, unlike the Slaughter which has a multitude of choices. It's also 110  points more expensive than the Slaughter. And lastly, even if it was that expensive, people still tend to take the Scythe and it's durability over the Shroud because the Shroud would now be a target for your opponents since if they take it down it means a whole lotta VP for them with its cost of 155 points and it is much easier to take out also. It's more a liability when taken in a Necron list than a Chaos LC would be in a Chaos list.

If a Slaughter-like vessel would ever come up in a Necron fleet, then for sure people would take it instead of the Shroud. It's not a question then of Slaughter over Scythe but rather Slaughter over Shroud.

[lastspartacus]

As mentioned per new rules (FAQ? or Draft...? forgot) Chaos can take 1 Imperial Navy ship per 1000pts. Thus a light cruiser available to Chaos.

All the more reason not to get hung up on chaos light cruisers

[Sigoroth]

I personally believe that Chaos would neither want or use light cruisers. As a Chaos captain that has to go against the might of the Imperium as well as maintain your position against rivals and subordinates you'd be inclined towards trying to maximise your power. Therefore you'd want to captain larger more powerful ships.

Escorts would be acquired by powerful individuals and awarded to subordinates. This would increase their ties of loyalty through the act of being rewarded and also through the necessity of having to serve a higher power to survive (an escort isn't going to do much alone) as well as the fact that other escort captains will be quick to turn on any dissenter in order to curry favour. So this would produce a relatively stable environment that sees a purpose for escorts and cruisers.

Since Chaos is an aggressive raiding fleet then there isn't much call for an anti-raid ship like a light cruiser. Since Chaos ships are quite fast, have good range and tend to act like a wolf pack (as opposed to the INs flock of sheep approach ) then there isn't much need for a shepherd to tend to exposed areas. So there's no fleet or patrol need for a CL as far as Chaos is concerned. There is definitely no desire to captain one. The only call for one at the moment is "with a CL I'd be able to purchase fleet X at points Y", which is just not an argument for their inclusion.

Note: A Slaughter on CTNH has more focusable firepower than a Dauntless (same total) all the while being faster. Nuff said.

[BaronIveagh]

I personally believe that Chaos would neither want or use light cruisers. As a Chaos captain that has to go against the might of the Imperium as well as maintain your position against rivals and subordinates you'd be inclined towards trying to maximise your power. Therefore you'd want to captain larger more powerful ships.

Escorts would be acquired by powerful individuals and awarded to subordinates. This would increase their ties of loyalty through the act of being rewarded and also through the necessity of having to serve a higher power to survive (an escort isn't going to do much alone) as well as the fact that other escort captains will be quick to turn on any dissenter in order to curry favour. So this would produce a relatively stable environment that sees a purpose for escorts and cruisers.

Since Chaos is an aggressive raiding fleet then there isn't much call for an anti-raid ship like a light cruiser. Since Chaos ships are quite fast, have good range and tend to act like a wolf pack (as opposed to the INs flock of sheep approach ) then there isn't much need for a shepherd to tend to exposed areas. So there's no fleet or patrol need for a CL as far as Chaos is concerned. There is definitely no desire to captain one. The only call for one at the moment is "with a CL I'd be able to purchase fleet X at points Y", which is just not an argument for their inclusion.

Note: A Slaughter on CTNH has more focusable firepower than a Dauntless (same total) all the while being faster. Nuff said.

See, I disagree with that idea.  Chaos =/= Khorne.  A Nightlords or Alpha Legion commander might look favorably on a faster, more maneuverable craft able to strike suddenly at a vulnerable point.  Not that they wouldn't pack it with as much firepower as they could, mind you.  A LC has the advantage that anything it doesn't out gun, it can out run.  Further, it requires less in the way of lines of supply to maintain for a protracted period. 

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Well if Alpha Legion want a faster and more maneuverable craft that can outrun anything it can't outgun and requires less in the way of resources and would be more innoucous than norm then escorts are the way to go.

[BaronIveagh]

Well if Alpha Legion want a faster and more maneuverable craft that can outrun anything it can't outgun and requires less in the way of resources and would be more innoucous than norm then escorts are the way to go.

Except if they're chased by other escorts.  Which may both outgun and outrun them. 

The problem with the escort solution is: A) Escorts are made of tin foil.  If you're going to have a protracted career as a terror of the space ways, it's not the way to go, since things can always go wrong.  B) Almost all the current Escorts that are in the Chaos fleet list, with the possible exception of the ico, seem to be newer types of escort.  Reading through the HH books, there does appear to be a few ship classes from that era that serve similar functions to the dauntless. 

Further, if the new rules are going to allow chaos to take IN LCs anyway, why not have their own LCs?

(Flight of the Eisenstein was hair pullingly vague in a lot of ways)

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Except if they're chased by other escorts.  Which may both outgun and outrun them. 

The problem with the escort solution is: A) Escorts are made of tin foil.  If you're going to have a protracted career as a terror of the space ways, it's not the way to go, since things can always go wrong.  B) Almost all the current Escorts that are in the Chaos fleet list, with the possible exception of the ico, seem to be newer types of escort.  Reading through the HH books, there does appear to be a few ship classes from that era that serve similar functions to the dauntless. 

Further, if the new rules are going to allow chaos to take IN LCs anyway, why not have their own LCs?

Errr if they are chased by normal escorts, the Alpha Legion should be able to take them on. If they're chased by SM escorts, then they would be toe to toe. Eldar escorts would have an advantage but then again, they have advantage in almost everything that taking the LC won't matter much. Necrons prolly similar. So really, I still see no need.

[Sigoroth]

Also consider the Hecate. This ship had really nice fluff and it's quite believable as a Dev refit. Yet the HA are considering it too big a project for Chaos to "create" a CB of their own by simply converting a Dev. So you'd be pushing shit uphill to try to establish a case for Chaos building a CL from the ground up. There's no real reason for them to make one. Those Chaos Warmasters that might be inclined to take a CL for whatever reason would likely be unable to create one and the limited dockyards available to Chaos would be tasked to more important day to day activities or projects.

The rule allowing IN cruisers being taken gives Chaos access to CLs. This is more than enough.

[Mazila]

The rule allowing IN cruisers being taken gives Chaos access to CLs. This is more than enough.

Not really - you can take 1 IN cruiser per 1000 points of ships, that means that it will be taken for games of 1500. So what imperial ship without NC would any one take? I think - none! Chaos cruisers are all better than IN ships without nova and you don't need CL for formats more than 1000 so this rule does not really give anything.

[horizon]

It is a fluffy rule.

[Sigoroth]

Not really - you can take 1 IN cruiser per 1000 points of ships, that means that it will be taken for games of 1500. So what imperial ship without NC would any one take? I think - none! Chaos cruisers are all better than IN ships without nova and you don't need CL for formats more than 1000 so this rule does not really give anything.

I confess I have not read the rule. Does it say 1 per full 1000 pts or 1 per 1000 pts or part thereof? If the latter then you could take one in a 500 or 750 pt fleet. Either way, you can still take one in a 1000 pt fleet. Also, since your point is that CLs are preferred at low point games and less valuable at high point games then why bring up a 1500 pt fleet? According to your logic they're no good at that size anyway.