Is FAQ2010 what we actually need?

[Zelnik]

If they are going to play the run game, ignore the escorts, aim for the cruisers, kill one and disengage your fleet. ta-da! you win.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Well, two things: 12 dirges and 8 jackels and 3 rerolls is going to outrun even my best lance escorts if he goes AFF, and possibly even if he doesn't go AFF.  Against Dirge's in particular, I cannot catch him unless I roll a 5 or 6 on every dice for AFF.  Even if he does not AFF himself. 

Secondly: If I have to tailor my list specifically against that fleet, AND have him play a scenario that gives me an advantage, to beat him, I would suggest that something is broken.

Why would you need to tailor? What's your list like? We can help you think up of tactics to handle the dirges and jackals. If not, as Zelnik says, go after the cruisers.

[Sigoroth]

Well, two things: 12 dirges and 8 jackels and 3 rerolls is going to outrun even my best lance escorts if he goes AFF, and possibly even if he doesn't go AFF.  Against Dirge's in particular, I cannot catch him unless I roll a 5 or 6 on every dice for AFF.  Even if he does not AFF himself. 

Secondly: If I have to tailor my list specifically against that fleet, AND have him play a scenario that gives me an advantage, to beat him, I would suggest that something is broken.

You're kidding right? Necron escorts are rubbish. You're using the speed argument? Hell, I can pop out with my Eldar, annihilate one of your cruisers(!) and then run off the edge of the board, disengaging, all without you getting a shot in. I win.

Compared to this the "Necrons are too fast" argument is pathetic. Besides, he has to be in range of your return fire if he's going to shoot one of your ships. Being in range means he loses about 5 escorts or braces. In which case he can't AAF.

[BaronIveagh]

Well, two things: 12 dirges and 8 jackels and 3 rerolls is going to outrun even my best lance escorts if he goes AFF, and possibly even if he doesn't go AFF.  Against Dirge's in particular, I cannot catch him unless I roll a 5 or 6 on every dice for AFF.  Even if he does not AFF himself. 

Secondly: If I have to tailor my list specifically against that fleet, AND have him play a scenario that gives me an advantage, to beat him, I would suggest that something is broken.

Why would you need to tailor? What's your list like? We can help you think up of tactics to handle the dirges and jackals. If not, as Zelnik says, go after the cruisers.

1k point game, he had all escorts, I had a styx (WM, TB), two devis and six icos.  He had 12 dirges and 8 jackals and had bought 3 rerolls.  I had actually beat the eldar 'all nightshade' fleet earlier with AC and the sun being in my favor.  Anyway, I had moved forward in a flying wedge formation with the styx central to the formation and tried to turn into him with bombers and Aboats.  He used the planet to swing around and tag the trailing edge of my left flank, killing the ico.  I tried to some around to present my broadsides, since he was now aft of me.  I manged to get two hits from the remaining two icos in that squadron, but he'd BFI'd and then moved his regular 50cm.

After that, it was off to the races.

[Lord Duggie The Mad]

Still a novice so there may be some gaping hole in the theory, but how about this fleet for our chap facing the rather unsporting necron fleet:

Desolator battleship
1 Acheron Heavy Cruiser
2 Devastation Cruisers

You still have a few points to fill in as you please although perhaps exercise caution upon choosing escorts - they seem to be the soft targets your opponent is capitalising on.

Quite a few long range lances in that fleet with placement to cover a bit of ground.  Just a thought but you could also use boarding torpedos from the desolator to function in a similar sense to the dropped Styx's assault boats - no quite as good I know, but still fast and can turn a little bit.

The placement of the lightening arcs on the necron escorts could be used to your advantage.  The cruiser group could cover one half of the table witdth, the battleship the rest.  Spread out properly you could still bring at least 4 lance shots cover 240cm of width (more than the typical table).  Watching fore and aft I leave you to figure out - ordnance perhaps?

[Zelnik]

Okay, with the fleet provided, i can tell you right-now that your loss either was due to terrible rolls, or a lack of skill. A-boats should have gutted his escort ranks by at least 8 a turn(on the conservative side), and the lace fire from your styx and devs should have added at least two more kills each.  Iconoclasts should have been used to force braces or (if your lucky) pop an escort as well. 

At most, he could have punked a cruiser or your escort squadron with the AAF cheese in the first round, then suffered A-boat hell the moment you showed up.

[Sigoroth]

Okay, with the fleet provided, i can tell you right-now that your loss either was due to terrible rolls, or a lack of skill. A-boats should have gutted his escort ranks by at least 8 a turn(on the conservative side), and the lace fire from your styx and devs should have added at least two more kills each.  Iconoclasts should have been used to force braces or (if your lucky) pop an escort as well. 

At most, he could have punked a cruiser or your escort squadron with the AAF cheese in the first round, then suffered A-boat hell the moment you showed up.

Not that I disagree that it wouldn't have been fairly easy to retaliate, particularly with ordnance, I don't see where you're getting 8 kills a turn from A-boats. Sure, if he doesn't brace, I can see that, 9 or 10 even. Otherwise 1 or 2.

[Zelnik]

No prob, let me explain.


He has two devs and a styx. Total LC, 14.

Against those odds, the necron player has a choice: Brace and lose firepower and the ability to GTFO, or sit and take terrible losses. Either way it's not a good deal, since all of the ships ALSO have batteries, and the iconoclasts can wreak some pretty severe mayhem on braced ships  with the st 18 batteries at their disposal. 

I may be a little liberal with my numbers.

[Sigoroth]

Eh, my numbers give a total of roughly 3-4 escorts per turn, including Iconoclasts, AC and long range lance fire.

[Zelnik]

If you lived closer to chicago, we could test this in person, but lets stay on topic

[BaronIveagh]

Eh, my numbers give a total of roughly 3-4 escorts per turn, including Iconoclasts, AC and long range lance fire.

Ok, here's the problem with all that: you're assuming that the ac were still near my fleet, and not 40-60cm beyond it.  When I moved in my ord phase, I sent the ac right at him, he then AFFed (4,5,6, for 110, 100, and 90cm move, respectively) around the planet (damn you inertialess drive) to attack my left flank.  This left my AC listening to the crickets 70+ cm away


     -       < -AC
    -
   -   (Planet)    everything else
     -             Icos
        -    - Necrons
                        -
                            -

[Zelnik]

Then recall and launch again.

[horizon]

Correct.

I think this thread needs a new title

"Where the community lets loose their inner feeling".

lol

People should learn to fire weapon batteries first against Necrons. That darned old tactica misguided too many admirals out there.

[Zelnik]

Horizon, very true, and your PM box is full

[BaronIveagh]

Then recall and launch again.

Zelnik, maybe I'm dense, but I just looked through both my blue book and the 07 FAQ and can't find the ability to recall them.