Is FAQ2010 what we actually need?

[Zelnik]

Okay, do I have to make the point that this is NOT 40k where points can be juggled like chainsaws?

I confess that chaos lacks upgrades and flexibility compared to the imperial navy, who have them all over the place, but let me make the point that most other fleets don't have a SINGLE OPTION for upgrades.  Necrons? none aside from a sepulchre. Tau? Forgeworld has none and the citidel tau have 'varients'.  Orks? nothing you can take is reliable with them on principle.  Eldar? none.  Space marines? none.

Sometimes, you have to deal with the fact that you don't have the points window, and you have to make do with what you have... that's part of the tactical fun of the game.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

I might need for anything. From the top of my head - to upgrade murder to hades for instance.

Aren't we talking about a small points raid mission? Say 500 points.

You need 2 cruisers and to get a Hades.
Say you take the Heretic. That's Hades+Murder+Heretic=500

How would that be better compared to 3 Slaughters in the same list at 495?

[Mazila]

The point is not about weather it is or is not better but that it is another tactical option.

Murder and Hades are better because i have 6 forward lances and 20 broadside 45 bataries so i have more chances of engaging targets from front and broadside.

But if it is going to be close-quarter fight  3 slaughterers are better. But i don't like the identical ships so I would probably go for something different.

Heretic can synergeticly be included in the Chaos fleet and it is a balanced ship for its points. Thats why i see no problems in it.

More good ships = more options = more tactics = more fun - pure and simple. If one person does not need smth you will always find some one who does need it, even if it is not the best solution!

[Zelnik]

And what your not understanding is that they don't need it. Chaos is not only one of the four oldest fleets, but it is also possibly the most solid fleet in the game, fully capable of taking on ANY other fleet and coming out on top. If you want to show such passion for fixing a fleet, Orks need it far more then Chaos ever will.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Yup. That's another thing. Chaos is really a developed as a faction already. Other factions need more loving such as Orks. Necrons and SM could do with a bit of expansion. Not too overpowering.

As to options, options are fine if there is a perceived problem with a faction. As it is, Chaos has everything covered already. Anything new added should really have serious thought put into it. Yes, even the proposed heavy cruiser and cruiser additions being proposed. The character battleships are fine by me.

[Zelnik]

I Considering that GW stated they would release them eventually.. yes the character battleships for chaos SHOULD be done before any crazy heavy cruisers are added.

[fracas]

I Considering that GW stated they would release them eventually.. yes the character battleships for chaos SHOULD be done before any crazy heavy cruisers are added.

imo this is all chaos need. their cruiser options is plenty good as is.

[Mazila]

Zelkin - I know a handfull of people who use heretic anyway and are happy with it, which means it is needed for them.

Admiral - chaos does not have LC so they do have smth not covered! Imperium has more stuff anyway.

I am just saying that this ship can be made official and there are really no objective reasons why it can't. It's not uber, it does not break balance and comparing to other chaos ships it is overpriced for what it can do. As we constantly see it here - anything can be fluffed! Making it 0-1 solves everything.

I will personally never use any of those themed battlebarges or cruisers that came up in new power of chaos because i see no use for them, but it does not mean i think it's bad that people spent time and effort developing the new things. Some one may use it as a fleet idea.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Chaos does have an LC. It's called the Slaughter. It's just in disguise as a cruiser.   By covered, I mean they don't need anything which an LC can provide that their regular cruisers cannot.

[Mazila]

Chaos does have an LC. It's called the Slaughter. It's just in disguise as a cruiser.   By covered, I mean they don't need anything which an LC can provide that their regular cruisers cannot.

Thats exactly what i call objective reasining   In any case I won't suffer if it is or is not official - our gaming community will use it anyway 

[BaronIveagh]

You're having trouble using Chaos against Eldar and Necron? Chaos with the 45-60 cm WBs on their cruisers?  Chaos with 45-60 cm lances? Riiiiiight.

Bloody right I am against necrons.  I chased those Dirges around the table for 45 turns and could never catch them.  Guy killed one ico and then ran away.  I finally just conceded in frustration.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

That's not a problem with the faction. That's a problem with your opponent.

[BaronIveagh]

The problem is that between my own playing, and what I read on here and warseer, it's not an uncommon necron strategy. 

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

The problem is that between my own playing, and what I read on here and warseer, it's not an uncommon necron strategy. 

Then play some scenarios where it doesn't give him an advantage to just run and run. We do know why they don't to do it that way. Because every ship Necrons lose mean a whole lotta VP. Even then get some escorts run after them and try to box them in. Escorts with lances so that they'll BFI for sure and not be able to AAF next turn.

[BaronIveagh]

The problem is that between my own playing, and what I read on here and warseer, it's not an uncommon necron strategy. 

Then play some scenarios where it doesn't give him an advantage to just run and run. We do know why they don't to do it that way. Because every ship Necrons lose mean a whole lotta VP. Even then get some escorts run after them and try to box them in. Escorts with lances so that they'll BFI for sure and not be able to AAF next turn.

Well, two things: 12 dirges and 8 jackels and 3 rerolls is going to outrun even my best lance escorts if he goes AFF, and possibly even if he doesn't go AFF.  Against Dirge's in particular, I cannot catch him unless I roll a 5 or 6 on every dice for AFF.  Even if he does not AFF himself. 

Secondly: If I have to tailor my list specifically against that fleet, AND have him play a scenario that gives me an advantage, to beat him, I would suggest that something is broken.