August 04, 2024, 09:13:59 PM

Author Topic: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)  (Read 42688 times)

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #105 on: January 20, 2011, 06:59:02 AM »
That last entry you quoted Horizon seems ... well, off. GK SCs have extra armour? How much extra than 6+ can you get? GKs chapter is spread thinly over the entire Imperium and yet they have the facilities to drop more marines faster? Er, why? There are going to be fewer of them in any one area than even normal SMs. Also, why wouldn't regular SMs be clamouring for that tech to become standard? Seems silly.

Offline horizon

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #106 on: January 20, 2011, 07:08:50 AM »
It is from lexicanum is from official codex and such iirc.

Extra armour = double six to be rolled. ;)
j/k

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #107 on: January 20, 2011, 07:18:09 AM »
Possibly make it a 7 hit cruiser?

I had a battle with them, led by an ordo malleus inquisition cruiser.  five strikes, six nova's and the cruiser.  It didn't go well.

Offline Eudaimon

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #108 on: January 20, 2011, 08:24:57 AM »
I don't remember where I read it, but I read that the GK chapter has about 5000 marines. Yes, it's a lot much than every other chapter. The reason for this was that they are spread through all the galaxy, unlike the other chapters

Offline Gron

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #109 on: January 20, 2011, 09:44:21 AM »
I've always felt that the fluff of the 40k universe was intriguing (and subject to much debate) but the effect of the rules of the game made it something entirely different. I pretty much stopped playing 40k with the release of 3rd ed. The way GW endorse the use of SM makes it seems like any given chapter is at least 100.000 marines across the galaxy. Even if GK where only 5000 it would be safe to assume that about 4000 of those would be stationed in the Sol system (without needing further explanation I hope?). As for fluff, seeing a single GK SC would indicate that something is seriously bad as their normal state is probably a squad aboard a IN cruiser and teleported into battle and not roaming around as an entire army.

As for the Inquisition draft, the quote from Horizon about them having better armour is fairly represented by the 50% increase in shield strength and the +5D6cm for AAF compared to the regular SM SC.

If every sentence from a fluff must be converted into a rule literally then this leaves few option as it is core breaking to have something more than 6+ armour. Try instead to accept that fluff and rules are not always symbiotic with each other.

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #110 on: January 20, 2011, 02:01:26 PM »
Directly from Lexicanum

Most chapters control two or three Battle Barges designed to deploy a fighting force to planets in a rapid fashion.

This information comes DIRECTLY from the BFG rulebook.

I am asking for -one-.

Shut up, admiral and troll somewhere else.

Don't tell me to shut up. I haven't been trolling, I don't know what's got your goat. What's your problem? I haven't been insulting you. I haven't been heckling you. I've just been using your own arguments against you. Hey if you can't handle the heat, you leave.

If you have proof bring it out and I'll amend my position. I'd be the first to admit I'm fallible and I can change my views. I'm presenting my point of view as to why GKs don't have to have a Battle Barge. As you noted, the entry said "most" meaning there are quite a few which won't have the BBs which to remind you I said not all SM chapters have BBs. You can try to convince me. However, presenting your argument in your rude manner of telling other people to shut up and making baseless accusations won't change my mind one bit.

Again, I might be persuaded that they may have a BB. However, do they really need one? Maybe. So far all the reasons why you think they should have one is easily countered by the fact that the Inquisition can just call on the help of the IN esp since the way I understand it they fall under the auspices of the Inquisition as all the info I have read on them have them following the commands of the Inquisition. Even the quote by Horizon convinces me they will lean more towards SCs than a BB. Aside from which I believe there aren't that many of them. If I am mistaken, then enlighten me. Do you have info on how many there really are?

If they do get one, then as YOU have been pointing out with respect to the other SM in the other SM related threads, it should be a generic battle barge, not one which can take an additional BCs (FP16 total now is it on top of FP12 WBs? Will check again) on the prow cannon or Psychic cannon because once you start adding options, it's not ONE BB anymore it's two or more. Weapons on ships aren't easily swapped out. I'm even dubious about a psychic cannon myself (imagine the number of psykers needed to power that cannon which can actually affect another ship). Even the GK SC doesn't have one.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 02:20:05 PM by Admiral_d_Artagnan »

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #111 on: January 20, 2011, 07:43:38 PM »
I wasn't comparing lances to the black ship, admiral, I was simply stating the fact that the same methods of argumentation came up in the sm lance thread.


We both have our opinions, and there is no hard fluff that says what armor a black ship has.  Here is my reasoning. 

Why do Imperial warships have 6+ prow armor?  Because the Imperial method of warfare is to close with the enemy head on, firing torpedo volleys, until they get close enough for broadsides.  That prow armor is an integral part of their strategy, to take the head on damage and weather it.

A Blackship is a treasure ship, one of the singularly most valuable ships in the galaxy.  It is extremely well defended, with only cruiser offensive weaponry.  It isn't going to be part of a battle line.  Its going to retreat from any serious engagement under the power of its escort fleet.
It will rarely be pointing its prow towards any threat, its far too valuable for that.  6+ armor therefore I consider to be a no-brainer for this ship.

And I hold that the reason of 'it isn't defended as best as possible because they are afraid it would defect' to be a shaky idea.  Thats not how the Imperium functions.  They prevent defection with multiple redundant restrictions and chains of command, not by weakening their ships.
If a blackship wanted to defect, it could do it much more easily than trying to take on its escorting fleet.  Armor matters little in that scenario.

Offline Plaxor

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #112 on: January 20, 2011, 09:05:27 PM »
I've never liked the Idea of psychic powers affecting BFG more than granting a re-roll. Even the most powerful psykers in the galaxy don't do that much in terms of 40k battles. Why would they be able to do damage from thousands of miles away to something that can withstand plasma warheads?

Sure the Niccassar can make their ship more maneuverable, but this is still an escort, and Imaginably they have specifically designed the vessel for this purpose. Also there are quite a few of them onboard.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #113 on: January 20, 2011, 09:41:23 PM »
What, did someone suggest a psychic power?

Offline Plaxor

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #114 on: January 20, 2011, 09:43:32 PM »
Just talking about the Psychic cannon which has made appearances in fanatic/nemesis.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #115 on: January 20, 2011, 10:02:33 PM »
The psy cannon itself does not use a psyker as its source of power (i may be wrong on this subject)  but instead generates the same power artificially on a massive scale.

Lets not forget that orks can get wn oddboy tower upgrade in campaigns.


Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #116 on: January 20, 2011, 10:38:35 PM »
And I hold that the reason of 'it isn't defended as best as possible because they are afraid it would defect' to be a shaky idea.  Thats not how the Imperium functions.  They prevent defection with multiple redundant restrictions and chains of command, not by weakening their ships.
If a blackship wanted to defect, it could do it much more easily than trying to take on its escorting fleet.  Armor matters little in that scenario.

Fine let's set aside this point and focus on combat. While this ship may not have range, this ship has effectively the same weapons as a Retribution has in the 30 cm band. The 30 cm band, however, is the band where most of the battles on the tabletop take place. And here this ship will be heads up above the rest. A fully 6+, 5 Shield and 5 Turret ship with Retribution weaponry will be the hardiest ship on the table, virtually indestructible.

Even if you use lances against it, it will not be hurt easily. Chaos is the fleet with the most long range lances. Even with my Murder-Hades squadron which has 10 lances to use, without re-rolls, it would only be able to take down the shields. With re-rolls maybe do a bit of damage. But that's assuming one goes that lance heavy. Typically, one wouldn't find that many lances in any other fleet and even chaos players don't usually set out using 1 Hades and 3 Murders as their core fleet. Bombers and torps would have the hardest time taking it down. Even A Boats that get through would merely be a nuisance.  

At this point, if you do want 6+ all around then the shields and turrets should go down. Otherwise, this ship's defences are fine as it is.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #117 on: January 21, 2011, 12:47:51 AM »
I'd be fine with that.  6+ armor and 4 turrets is, iirc, roughly the same as 5+ and 5.  It just makes more sense to me.  If the weapons need to go down a bit, or the points up, so be it.  If it goes to 6+ and keeps everything, just make it a 400 point ship. 


As to the psychic cannon, its more technological than 'psychic power'.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #118 on: January 21, 2011, 12:52:18 AM »
We're talking about the black ship right? To be honest I don't see it as BB size. More likely just a transport, or a heavy transport at best. If for some stupid reason it had to be a BB (which seems stupid to me) then I don't see why it should have any weaponry. Sure, give it 6+ all round armour with 5 shields and turrets. No need to give it weaponry. Make it 25cm speed. It's not a warship, it's a glorified transport.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Inquisition DRAFT v1.5 (HA)
« Reply #119 on: January 21, 2011, 01:09:14 AM »
I think it should have some weapons.  I would lose the torpedoes.  And possibly some firepower on the batteries.