Empire List (1000 pts) to battle Chaos. Suggestions please...

[pw]

I'm now 'living the dream' in as much as I've actually found someone at the local club who not only wants to play Warmaster but who is also prepared to buy and paint up an army.  He's gone for Chaos and, with a few weeks before our first game I'm trying to settle on my own list.

I've abandoned Lizards as they look (on paper) to be a bit tricky to use at 1000 points. So Empire it is. Here's my first list:

General
2 x Hero
4 x Halberdiers
2 x crossbow
Flagellents
2 x Knights
Helblaster
Cannon

The basic idea is that it'll have a higher break point than the Chaos force, it's got a bit of shooting to drive back and disperse his inevitable charge, some flagellants to try and bolster the line when he gets there and a couple of units of knights to give me something with some punch.

So, before I start painting have I missed anything significant?

[Guthwine]

Its a solid list, no doubt.

I would take a wizard too or instead of a second hero but that is just my taste.

[pw]

Swapping a hero for a wizard, a unit of skirmishers and a cheapo magic item is doable. Any other opinions?

[azrael71]

Make sure your flaggelants get the first charge or they will crumble.
Also skirmishers are extra stands added to infantry units and not an unit in their own right.

[pw]

Sorry, should have said stand regarding the skirmishers. I'm assuming they'd be best added to a unit of Halberdiers to get the 6+ save.

[wmchaos2000]

Loose the Hellblaster. No use.
Swap a hero for a wizard and give him Ring Of Magic. Combined with Voice Of Command it is a game winner.
If you have a Griffon to your hero, it will probably be a very good tide-turner. And add sword of might.
Does your opponent have the ChaosDragon? If so, you need the Griffon.
Otherwise:
Brigade 1 2xCrossB 2xHalb - guarding the cannon
Brigade 2 1xCrossb 2xHalb 1xFlagg - supporting the knights
Brigade 3 2xKnights - try to flank the enemies heaviest troops with these
"Brigade 4" Cannon - try to only shoot at 4+ save enemies, make sure his Harpies do not get a flank charge on these, even better: make sure his harpies do not get a flank charge on anything (6+ save can be superior)
Break: 6

[azrael71]

Loose the Hellblaster. No use.

I disagree.
Use the helblaster to guard the cannons but keep it seperate from the cannons once in place, that way any malfunctions will not affect the cannons.
 

[pw]

Thanks for the detailed advice. So the list you're suggesting ends up with:

4 Halberdiers 180
3 Crossbow 165
1 Flagellants 70
2 Knights 220
Canon 85
General 125
Hero 80
Wizard with Ring of Magic 75

I like the wizard configuration and he saves me 5 points over the hero. Still not sure if I prefer the extra crossbow to the Helblaster - but that could be the thought of painting more figures! Harder still is working out where to find the points for a Griffon. Everything I can come up with drops my break point down to 5 which seems like a poor trade. Any suggestions?

[wmchaos2000]

Loose the Hellblaster. No use.

I disagree.
Use the helblaster to guard the cannons but keep it seperate from the cannons once in place, that way any malfunctions will not affect the cannons.
 

I agree, a bit, but I have never seen it come to that good use so it is worth its cost.
AND by separating helblaster from cannon the hb can not stand and shoot when the can gets charged.
Another comparison is: 50p for 1 stand with 2 hits versus 55p for 3 stands with 3 hits each. Seems like pretty easy mathematics to me.

[wmchaos2000]

Thanks for the detailed advice. So the list you're suggesting ends up with:

4 Halberdiers 180
3 Crossbow 165
1 Flagellants 70
2 Knights 220
Canon 85
General 125
Hero 80
Wizard with Ring of Magic 75

I like the wizard configuration and he saves me 5 points over the hero. Still not sure if I prefer the extra crossbow to the Helblaster - but that could be the thought of painting more figures! Harder still is working out where to find the points for a Griffon. Everything I can come up with drops my break point down to 5 which seems like a poor trade. Any suggestions?

That wiz combo has won many fights to my oldest opponent. And I think you can imagine which army I field.
In a 1000p combat is keeping your units alive vital. If you lose one brigade (4 units) you are almost done. So many units and many hits and/or good saves on those units is the key.
The terror causing mount is another helper. I would try one game without it and then one with it, doing so you can decide for yourself what you prefer. If you are a real gambler, maybe lose the hero for mounting the general on the griffon? Maybe not. 
Another thought, is the lone flagg unit going to do you any good? I mean, if your opponent has read thru your army list just once, he will know that he should pay extra attention to these frenzied worshippers. Two units on the other hand... (2000p)

[Carrington]

Bring lots of terrain!

There's a big difference between a 1k army in an open field and a 1k army with a more complicated battlefield.

[spiritusXmachina]

My advice is: Don't take 1k Battles too seriously as most of the times the player that charges first wins.
It's great for getting hold of the rules. But at long term you should try to get at least 1.5k onto the battlefield.

[pw]

Thanks for this. I thought about removing the Flaggies (I can't take two units in 1000 pts) but to be honest I can't see anything to replace them with that'd be much better without dropping the break point to five and that seems like my most obvious advantage over the Chaos army I'm going to face.

Am I over-emphasising break points though? If five would be ok then I could drop the flaggies and a unit of crossbows and add in another unit of Halberds and the Gryphon. Would that sound like a better list?

As for points values, my opponent suggested 1000, mainly for painting/buying issues and I'm happy to follow his lead in that (I think I've got about 2000 points worth of toys although I can already see that I need more Halberdiers and a gryphon!).

[Lex]

As noted above, at 1000 points or less you should consider games mostly learning experience to get familiar with the mechanics. Especialy on a table with, say the normal amount and placement of scenery for WHFB it will be like a fencing match, a lot of moving about till you can deliver the one (mostly devestating) charge. A smaller table with more terrain can make these battles a lot more interesting!

When going to 1500 to 2000 (using 2k min/max) you are playing at the level of most tournament games. The 2K min/max allows you more interesting options and forces you to field your defining units in sufficient numbers. Still helps to have a decent amount of terrain on the table.

Over 2000 points battles will take longer to play, but can definitly be fun. Multiplayer battles with WM are fairly easy to do, as long as you stick to the min/max in the selectors, and allow you to field forces at 5000 points and over. Do however prepare to play multi-day battles to then