Nova Cannon limitations

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

It is not useless.

Yes it is in ones or twos.

A single nova can reduce a ships range by -5,

At which point, the enemy ship can go AAF.

strip shields off of multiple escorts,

Placement issues as noted.

and be a terror to ordnance.

If the NC is shooting at ordnance, be my guest.

It lets you reach into the opponent's deployment zone and potentially do alot of damage.
The deployment zone.  If you think its worthless, then I really can't argue with you.

"Potentially do a lot of damage" which just like on the other end of the spectrum, "potentially do squat."

Again in ones or twos, worthless. In threes or more, then it gets better.

[Sigoroth]

Note that 45cm is also well within torpedo range, with the torpedos able to be fired all but unavoidably into the path of the battleship. 48 torps, the equivalent of 8 Nova Cannons, would do 6 hits past shields and bracing, not including damage to other ships caught in the path.

Not to get too technical or anything but if you're firing straight down the guts of a closing BB then you could ensure a hit from as far away as 98 odd cm, assuming no fighter interception (which potentially can be avoided by having your own escorting fighters) and no use of burn retros. 20cm ship movement, 30cm torp movement, 15cm BB movement (turns to avoid impact), 30cm torpedo movement and base radius. Without use of Burn Retros a 20cm speed BB can't actually manoeuvre out of the torps path. A 45° turn +5cm movement does not take its base out of the path of the torpedoes. Of course, if there's a BM in the path of the IN cruiser then this reduces the range a little, and the BB player could choose to only move minimum movement (maybe intending to put another ship in the torps path), in which case the reach is only 88cm odd.

What I meant about a fighter escort is just sending in some fighters alongside to clear CAP and enemy torps in the path in your opponents ordnance phase. Also you'd want them to be in front of your torps so your opponent has to go through or around your fighter screen to knock out the torps. He may not have enough fighters within range to do so. This is obviously not a guaranteed attack at this range, since your opponent will have a good chance of intercepting, however it will be his only option, since he can't manoeuvre.

[lastspartacus]

Hmm.  Fighters being able to CAP with torps would be interesting.

[RCgothic]

Hmmm.

20cm ship movement +30cm torp movement.
15cm BB movement + 30cm torp movement
30cm torp movement.

Direct hit from 125cm with torps. Sure, the enemy has 3 Ordnance Phases and a movement and gunnery phase to intercept them, but that shows that the Nova doesn't even really have that much additional range when targetting BBs.

[lastspartacus]

Make a new Imperial supergun.  Call it the Pwneratus Imperator.  Sounds like about what you are looking for.

[BaronIveagh]

8 Nova Cannon firing at a BB, 3.33 target the escort screen instead, 3.11 direct hits accounting for scatter, 1.556 partial hits, 12.4 hits total. 4 absorbed by shields, braced, 4.22 hits past shields and saves.

Note that 45cm is also well within torpedo range, with the torpedos able to be fired all but unavoidably into the path of the battleship. 48 torps, the equivalent of 8 Nova Cannons, would do 6 hits past shields and bracing, not including damage to other ships caught in the path.

Also, 8 Nova Cannons would only be found in a fleet of 2000pts, in which you could have two battleships squadroned together and taking perhaps 2 hits each without even having to brace.

Gothic, you're assuming that none of the firing ships are squadroned, thus using higher then average ld to ignore the escorts.  My usual experience is the escorts take 0-2 NC hits if they aren't primary.

And, you can do 7 in 1500, if my math is right.  You can almost do 8, but it takes it over to about 1550.

Also in the time those torps get there, you can fire NC twice.

[Vaaish]

7 is the maximum number of NC possible in a 1500 point fleet. It can be done using all dominators or all lunars though there is a small bit of play with the dominators that can get you a Mars and still maintain 7 NC.

[Sigoroth]

Hmmm.

20cm ship movement +30cm torp movement.
15cm BB movement + 30cm torp movement
30cm torp movement.

Direct hit from 125cm with torps. Sure, the enemy has 3 Ordnance Phases and a movement and gunnery phase to intercept them, but that shows that the Nova doesn't even really have that much additional range when targetting BBs.

Well if your enemy is running a pure gunfleet (say by agreement), then BBs are particularly susceptible to long range torp salvos, at least if they're approaching you squarely.

[horizon]

Make a new Imperial supergun.  Call it the Pwneratus Imperator.  Sounds like about what you are looking for.

Who is? What is?

Capping torps? Essentially you can do it already, just place fighters in front of torpedoes and let them eliminate cap. Especially at shotgun range. Real cap on torps seems odd.

BaronI, 0-2 hits? If not primary... odd word choice. If the LD test is failed they are primary. Then your placement is again iffy. Space'em.

The all NC fleet will have less ordnance so massing turrets isn't needed as told.

[BaronIveagh]

Make a new Imperial supergun.  Call it the Pwneratus Imperator.  Sounds like about what you are looking for.

Who is? What is?

Capping torps? Essentially you can do it already, just place fighters in front of torpedoes and let them eliminate cap. Especially at shotgun range. Real cap on torps seems odd.

BaronI, 0-2 hits? If not primary... odd word choice. If the LD test is failed they are primary. Then your placement is again iffy. Space'em.

The all NC fleet will have less ordnance so massing turrets isn't needed as told.

..... by 'primary' I meant the target that everything was supposed to be aimed at, not necessarily what everything ended up being aimed at. 

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Make a new Imperial supergun.  Call it the Pwneratus Imperator.  Sounds like about what you are looking for.

If the comment is directed at me, I suggest you go read the NC rules I made published in one of the Warp Rift magazines. That's the NC that I am looking for.

[lastspartacus]

Another way to look at the nova, besides the large blast being able to hit multiple things, destroy ordnance, reduce leadership and reduce speed,
is thinking of it as a lance with a minimum range and nearly infinite range.  'Hey, you have a prow lance.  It suffers -1 to hit and you can't reroll it, but if it hits it does d6 points of auto damage.  Oh and it can scatter and has a template if you miss'

Doesn't sound horribly innacurate in that light.  I think we are forgetting that other weapons can miss too

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Other weapons don't have proposals to limit them in numbers.

[commander]

Make a new Imperial supergun.  Call it the Pwneratus Imperator.  Sounds like about what you are looking for.

Actually, we are thinkering about that 
Big lines of what we came up with, not playtested, not finished yet either.
- The nova cannon is a heavy long range artillerypiece using the normal guntable. One additional right column shift for firing over 60 cm.
- Make it an equivalent of FP6, roll to hit as normal, a hit doing D6 damage, shields 'absorbs' damage as normal. The multiple hits indicating its accuracy is better at short ranges but only one D6 is rolled for damage.
- no min range.
It's also possible we ditch the concept.

[BaronIveagh]

Other weapons don't have proposals to limit them in numbers.

Well, NUMBERS maybe, but some rather entertaining proposals for making AC another form of gun have come to light...