Nova Cannon limitations

[Vaaish]

It seems this discussion is devolving rapidly. Anything starting with "But it might" just preys on the fear of potential without providing any solid reasoning for the weapon being OP. It's no different than saying "but S6 torpedoes might cripple a battleship, therefore they need a nerf." Right now we have four battle reports and one pseudo report from eudaimon that provide data. Two from nate where the opposing fleet got pasted and two from RCGothic where the NC fleet got pasted plus the report from eudaimon where the NC fleet got pasted.

Neither of Nate's reports makes any serious use of AAF to close the distance with the NC fleet and chaos is quick to brace. Both result in the chaos fleet taking a severe beating. (not to mention scatters guided by Him on Terra)

The remaining reports make use of AAF and result in the destruction of the IN fleet.

Now what I think we can gather from this is two things. AAF is ESSENTIAL to effectively dealing with the NC fleet as is attempting to deploy to minimize the opportunities the NC can shoot. Secondly, loitering in front of NC will kill you since the more they shoot the more likely you are going to take a direct hit with a damage roll above a two.

For those who say that the NC is OP and devastates enemy fleets, post some battle reports so we can get more data and see why your group has difficulty with NC. (LS this includes you since you've become quite vocal about limiting them) Unfortunately, with the holidays fast approaching and several deadlines I'm probably not going to have an opportunity to get any game in myself, but lets get some more data on this.

[lastspartacus]

How about:

90cm, 3d6 scatter, no minimum distance.

[Vaaish]

LS, why not just say roll the scatter dice and it you hit then it does d6 damage and if you miss nothing happens. 3d6 is far too predictable a result. Second, the NC is supposed to be extremely long range artillery style weapon and starting on long edges you should be in range on the first turn anyway even with 90cm so why bother?

[lastspartacus]

I meant 3d6 scatter on a miss, still rolling to hit on the scatter dice.

You are right, on a 4x4 table you only have a few centimeters of wiggle room at the end of the board where the nova couldn't reach.
However, thats only straight down.  During deployment it would give you the ability to deploy laterally and at least have somewhere to run from concentrated fire, especially on a 6x4 board you have a lot more freedom to keep from being bombarded as you sit in your DZ.
On the other hand, there was never a fluff reason why NC couldnt shoot below 30cm, just a balancing act to make it feel more like arty.
I think perhaps this will hopefully satisfy both parties.  It also gives vessels that require larger bases to support themselves a small bit of mercy.

[Vaaish]

yes, I know what you are saying. What I am saying is 3d6 on a miss is extremely predictable. Unless you roll 3 ones (low probability) you will always miss this makes it useless to even bother rolling them.

Seriously... you can do FAR more to limit the NC by just using more celestial phenomena. There isn't any need to limit the range because it does little to limit how soon it engages unless you play short edges which can be more easily controlled using terrain. Go back and look where the NC thread ended. Ray even posted the end result for you.

Here:
So an even more stream-lined version would be: 30cm-150cm range (back to 30cm for balance).
Scatter dice with D6cm scatter, where a hit is 0cm scatter.

D6 damage with the hole over the stem, D3 with the hole over the base, 1 damage with the outer template over the base.   

No benefit for being on Lock-on.

You have to target a ship/defence or ordy marker/wave. Target priority is identical to other weapons, so you must pass a leadership test not to shoot the closest target.

You may not have more capital ships with NC's as without.


That I mostly agree with, but I think there should be a better mechanism than d3 hits. Yes it is used in epic and other games but I just find the whole concept odd. Either just do 2 hits or some other way of dealing with it. Makes the NC more accurate but it does limit how often you will see the d6 hits. the limit to the number you take means you won't see 6 NC in a fleet. At most it should end up with around 3.

[lastspartacus]

is the center hole not touching at 4 centimeters?  Its certainly is on a large base.  It still is 1/3 chance of d6 hits, and scatter does 1/d6 hits to other things.  I had 2 direct hit scatters in my last game on ships in the squadron of the ship targeted. 

[RCgothic]

It still hasn't been demonstrated that Nova Cannons are any more deadly than torpedoes. Also: There is somewhere to run where you can get out of range of the nova Cannons. Within 30cm. Every single Chaos ship outguns its non-torpedo counterpart.

[lastspartacus]

Other than torps being much more easy to deal with?  Not even worth discussion, completely different.

[horizon]

I'm with RCgothic on this. The NC isn't the overpowered. Neither is a full NC list. It just needs a different tactic to take care of.

[Vaaish]

is the center hole not touching at 4 centimeters?  Its certainly is on a large base.  It still is 1/3 chance of d6 hits, and scatter does 1/d6 hits to other things.  I had 2 direct hit scatters in my last game on ships in the squadron of the ship targeted.  

LS, the center hole wouldn't touch the stem with a 1cm scatter on any ship so you would NEVER get d6 hits if it scatters. That means with the rules I posted up there you would take d3 hits on a 2cm scatter with a cruiser base and 1 hit any time after that. I really don't know how you people end up with so many direct hit scatters. In all my games of BFG (and I have NC every game) I've only had the thing scatter onto another ship once... and that was my own ship.

30cm torpedo shotguns aren't easier to deal with. NC does gradual damage on teh way in, torpedoes smack you when you are inside 30.

In any event I also agree that the NC isn't overpowered.

[RCgothic]

Other than torps being much more easy to deal with?  Not even worth discussion, completely different.

6 Torpedoes will do as much damage in one turn of firing than a Nova Cannon will do in three. A Nova Cannon will be extremely lucky to get three turns of firing.

[lastspartacus]

A nova only has to touch the base with the center hole, not the stem, for the D6, does it not?

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

I think there's a miscommunication on what NC rule is being discussed.

[Vaaish]

yes, I think you are correct there does seem to be some confusion.

LC, under the current rules, yes it does d6 damage if the center hole touches anywhere on the base. Under the rules proposed by Ray, the center hole would do d6 on the stem only and d3 over the base.

[lastspartacus]

Ah.  For a moment I was thinking I had taken way too many direct nova hits

What about this:

90cm, scatter dii and 2d6 scatter if miss, no minimum distance.

Or 3d6 scatter and stem d6 and d3 on base.