August 04, 2024, 11:20:05 PM

Author Topic: Orkz - gib uz a brik  (Read 65713 times)

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #180 on: December 28, 2010, 01:40:59 PM »
LOL! these are orks, get over it LS

Offline Plaxor

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #181 on: December 28, 2010, 03:19:43 PM »
I actually agree with LS, I don't think they need a bonus to LD, and I think that 'claws' and the ram prow should merge into one option.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #182 on: December 28, 2010, 07:56:35 PM »
Orks already have a third greater chance at ramming than Imperials, someone on here did the math on that.
And as Sig said, their enthusiasm is matched only by their ineptitude.  Because they are Orks, that is exactly why they shouldn't get any more bonus to ramming.

Plaxor, I fancy the idea of modeling big klaws on my ships, but I don't think it should exactly be a part of everything with a ram spike.
I think it should function exactly like the tyranid Massive Claws, and help hold a boarded ship in place.
Actually I think klaws and massive claws both should simple read 'ships boarded by vessels with klaws/massive claws will not be able to escape the boarding action unless they roll a 6 on a d6 at the start of their turn'  Or something like that.  Less damage, more focused on holding it place.  Throw in the rules about larger sized ships still moving along while boarded and its good.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #183 on: December 28, 2010, 10:58:10 PM »
wait, what? how the fuck do orks have a better chance at ramming when their leaderships are lower and their ships slower??? That is the dumbest thing i have -ever- heard. Sorry LS, that is bull no matter what mathhammer they pull out of their ass.

Offline Plaxor

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #184 on: December 28, 2010, 11:03:13 PM »
Orks already have a third greater chance at ramming than Imperials, someone on here did the math on that.
And as Sig said, their enthusiasm is matched only by their ineptitude.  Because they are Orks, that is exactly why they shouldn't get any more bonus to ramming.

Plaxor, I fancy the idea of modeling big klaws on my ships, but I don't think it should exactly be a part of everything with a ram spike.
I think it should function exactly like the tyranid Massive Claws, and help hold a boarded ship in place.
Actually I think klaws and massive claws both should simple read 'ships boarded by vessels with klaws/massive claws will not be able to escape the boarding action unless they roll a 6 on a d6 at the start of their turn'  Or something like that.  Less damage, more focused on holding it place.  Throw in the rules about larger sized ships still moving along while boarded and its good.

RC's math was a bit wrong for that statistic. He didn't account for the fact that Orks will have more commonly LD 6+7 and IN will have more often 7+8 so the value is actually closer to 1/4 better.

And yes, I think that the ram spike and claws rules are too similar, so it's pointless to have both (unless someone wants to do 2 auto damage when heaiding in.) So either the claws should do something else (like tyranid massive claws) or just should be meshed into one option (I.e. Claws, Drills and spikes: the vessel automatically does 1 damage whenever its base moves over another vessel Friend or Foe!)

Nate: I always felt that it was more orky that there was a sacrifice of firepower for bonus speed, as the two ork philosophies, one is really tough with lots of guns, and the other is real fast and sneaky.

@Zelnik, it's because they don't have to make 2 leadership checks. The Orks have a 49% chance on average of passing an LD check (without blast markers or enemies on special orders. However they only have to make one, meaning they will have a 49% chance of being successful on ramming.

IN has about a 64% chance of passing an ld check, but they have to make two to successfully ram (1 for AAF and 1 to ram) meaning that they only succeed 42% of the time.

The only reason that it seems skewed is because Orks are really the only fleet that would choose to ram on a regular basis. Most other fleets have enough firepower that the risk of damaging themselves isn't worth it, as even when crippled they could do enough damage.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #185 on: December 28, 2010, 11:48:34 PM »
wait, what? how the fuck do orks have a better chance at ramming when their leaderships are lower and their ships slower??? That is the dumbest thing i have -ever- heard. Sorry LS, that is bull no matter what mathhammer they pull out of their ass.

Orks only have to take one leadership.  Even if you weren't wrong, you don't have to be such an ass about it.

Offline Zhukov

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #186 on: December 29, 2010, 01:39:31 AM »
wait, what? how the fuck do orks have a better chance at ramming when their leaderships are lower and their ships slower??? That is the dumbest thing i have -ever- heard. Sorry LS, that is bull no matter what mathhammer they pull out of their ass.

Orks only have to take one leadership.  Even if you weren't wrong, you don't have to be such an ass about it.

Agreed. Not so harsh next time Zel.

Plaxor, I fancy the idea of modeling big klaws on my ships, but I don't think it should exactly be a part of everything with a ram spike.
I think it should function exactly like the tyranid Massive Claws, and help hold a boarded ship in place.
Actually I think klaws and massive claws both should simple read 'ships boarded by vessels with klaws/massive claws will not be able to escape the boarding action unless they roll a 6 on a d6 at the start of their turn'  Or something like that.  Less damage, more focused on holding it place.  Throw in the rules about larger sized ships still moving along while boarded and its good.

Agreed! It is weird the Klaws and Spike do essentially the same thing.

-Zhukov
I am Zukov's Klaw.

"Oh mah gawd its like a giant veil was just lifted off my face and the beautiful maiden before my eyes just turned into a hideous Ork with a giant, bloody choppa."

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #187 on: December 29, 2010, 05:04:13 AM »
I would say the lack of speed easily makes up for the single roll.
Sorry to be a dick, this is an issue i get easily annoyed over.


I would say change the klaw rule to be similar to the massive claws rule, i really don't see why they would aid in ramming.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #188 on: December 29, 2010, 12:43:24 PM »
So thats one thing down for sure.  Klaws should have some function of holding whatever you are boarding.  I'd rather see less direct damage and higher chances of actually grabbing hold than Massive Claws, but if it was exactly the same rule it would be better than current.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #189 on: December 31, 2010, 03:01:46 AM »
How about this.

pair o' 'uge Klawz: When a vessel with 'uge klawz declares a boarding action, roll 2d6 (1 for each of the klawz).  on a 4+, each hit provides an instant hit and run attack against the vessel BEFORE the boarding action is initiated.  If both klawz hit, the vessel is grabbed.  Vessels of equal or smaller size CANNOT move when grabbed, vessels of larger size are reduced by 10cm speed (5cm if the grabber is an escort).  This effect IS cumulative and can reduce the grabbed ship to 0cm.. just be aware, the grabba's are ALSO reduced to 0cm when grabbed on, and only count as moving IF the grabbed ship moves. 


Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #190 on: December 31, 2010, 08:06:07 PM »
I'm not saying thats a bad idea, I'd just prefer a much simpler and more reliable method of 'locking', cuz the real damage is in the boarding.
I don't see the klaws doing any actualy hull damage to the ship, say, on a 3+ during boarding the ship is 'locked' in and can't escape unless x and x

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #191 on: December 31, 2010, 09:54:52 PM »
well if the klawz are that large, i could see damage to ship systems, hence the hit and run.. and remember, you can always roll a 1.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #192 on: December 31, 2010, 10:01:18 PM »
I know they are large, and probably dig into the the hull to latch on.  But bfg ships are very toughly armored, some scores  and scratches on the hull doesnt equal a hit, losing a hit is like a city block sized chunk being burned out.  I just can't see something 'squeezing' damage out of a ship.  And I'd just rather have a reliable grapple than another way to do damage close up.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #193 on: December 31, 2010, 10:02:40 PM »
tell that to feeder tentacles and massive claws, LS.  Logically speaking, they should snap against the hardened armor of even eldar craft.  Instead they somehow automatically deal damage and pierce armor like a lance.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Orkz - gib uz a brik
« Reply #194 on: January 01, 2011, 08:52:43 PM »
Feeder tentacles make sense, I understand them completely, even though they could be streamlined.  Ive never liked the massive claws, or thought them worth it.  Could be more intuitive to boarding, and the idea of one hitting if another misses is kinda silly.