Orkz - gib uz a brik

[Zhukov]

Also, who came up with the Assault Kroozer idea?  Need to PM for stats, this thread is too long to search.

Assault Kroozer . . . . . . . . 175 pts
Hits/10  Shields/1  Turrets/1  Speed/25cm  Turns/45* Armor/ 6+, 5+ Rear

Armament: Range/Speed: Firepower/Strength: Fire Arc:
Prow Torpedoes: 30cm: D6+2: Front
Prow Weapons Batteries: 45cm: D6+2: Front
Port Launch Bays: Assault Boats-30cm: 2: -
Starboard Launch Bays: Assault Boats-30cm: 2: -

Notes:
-Equipped with Boarding Torpedoes
-Equipped with Power Ram
-May conduct up to 2 teleport attacks per turn.
-Boarding Value is doubled. If carrying a Warlord, it gives +10 Boarding points to the Assault Kroozer's value instead of doubling it again.

I think this achieves what you all say an Assault Kroozer should be right? And if it's designed to board Space Stations, then a Boarding Value of 30 pts on a fresh one with a Warlord gives you a 2-1 boarding value against a Space Station. Alternatively you could arm this type of ship with W.S. Boyd's "Shokk Attack Lance Gublins" weapon?

-Zhukov

[flybywire-E2C]

Also, who came up with the Assault Kroozer idea?  Need to PM for stats, this thread is too long to search.

Assault Kroozer . . . . . . . . 175 pts
Hits/10  Shields/1  Turrets/1  Speed/25cm  Turns/45* Armor/ 6+, 5+ Rear

Armament: Range/Speed: Firepower/Strength: Fire Arc:
Prow Torpedoes: 30cm: D6+2: Front
Prow Weapons Batteries: 45cm: D6+2: Front
Port Launch Bays: Assault Boats-30cm: 2: -
Starboard Launch Bays: Assault Boats-30cm: 2: -

Notes:
-Equipped with Boarding Torpedoes
-Equipped with Power Ram
-May conduct up to 2 teleport attacks per turn.
-Boarding Value is doubled. If carrying a Warlord, it gives +10 Boarding points to the Assault Kroozer's value instead of doubling it again.

I think this achieves what you all say an Assault Kroozer should be right? And if it's designed to board Space Stations, then a Boarding Value of 30 pts on a fresh one with a Warlord gives you a 2-1 boarding value against a Space Station. Alternatively you could arm this type of ship with W.S. Boyd's "Shokk Attack Lance Gublins" weapon?

-Zhukov

Hey Zukhov, pretend for a moment this was going to have a name, like "Zagreb's Terror" or something like that. What would you name it?

- Nate

[horizon]

"Zhukov's Claw"

[Plaxor]

Hey Zukhov, pretend for a moment this was going to have a name, like "Zagreb's Terror" or something like that. What would you name it?

- Nate

You're seriously considering this one? Wow.... Um... it's very radically different than anything Orks have.... I honestly would build it differently, but I guess you could make it a character ship.

I would do something like this, more in theme with Ork ideology of how they would build an assault ship/competes less with Kill-Kroozers:

Assault Kroozer . . . . . . . . 150 pts
Hits/10  Shields/1  Turrets/1  Speed/20cm  Turns/45* Armor/ 6+prow 5+sides and rear

Armament: Range/Speed: Firepower/Strength: Fire Arc:
Prow Torpedoes: 30cm: D6+2: Front
Prow Weapons Batteries: 30cm: D6+2: Front
Port and starboard Torpedoes: Str: D6 L/R
Port and Starboard Heavy Guns: Str 4

Notes:
-Equipped with Boarding Torpedoes
-Equipped with Power Ram
-Has Soopa Engines

This build is a lot more like what Orks currently have, and gets rid of assault boats, the Orks would probably not be clever enough for that. Zhukov's design is way too powerful compared to a Kill-kroozer (6+armor front and sides, with 25cm speed?) the speed issue is better covered by Soopa Engines, and Orks wouldn't put long-range weaponry on an Assault Kroozer.

I recommend for name; Zagrot's Raider.

[Plaxor]

Nate, the Grunt is undercosted... 30 points? It has +1 armor on sides and rear, as well as an extra turret, it loses CTNH, but that's not so important. The special ability is an even trade off. Should probably be 35, or lose the extra armor or turret.

Also the large base makes it slightly harder for it to board. You can overlap bases, but the advantage of area coverage with a large base is diluted with an escort.

A large base on a Kroozer can board enemy vessels in 185% of the area, however this only is 123% as effective in the case of escorts.

This also makes them better at ramming than a Brute, which is only able to ram half the area, but half effectiveness. Some people would take that. I would probably have it be 30 points, but lose the large base rule, and be 4+ armor on sides and rear.

[lastspartacus]

Assault Kroozer-170
Cruiser/10 Speed:20cm Turns: 45 Shields: 1 Armor: 6+/5+ Turrets: 1
prow bombardment cannon 6 30cm
port/starboard heavy gunz 8 15cm
*Soopa Engines
*Power Ram
*Ignores blast markers for purposes of boarding and speed reduction.

There's my idea, altered slightly to suit 'normal' orks

[Plaxor]

A bombardment cannon on an ork kroozer class would destroy any semblance of internal balance that the orks have.

Right now there are two kroozer options, both decent in comparison to each other, however one helps defend against the main weakness of orks (ordinance) and therefore is greatly preferred.

[lastspartacus]

Ah, right, I meant D6 not str6 Switch the thing out for gunz if need be, its not the primary facet of the beast, just a characterful weapon for an assault kroozer.

[Plaxor]

Ah, right, I meant D6 not str6 Switch the thing out for gunz if need be, its not the primary facet of the beast, just a characterful weapon for an assault kroozer.

That wouldn't be so bad, but still... it hurts the point of taking restricted ships as these give access to lances and bombardment cannons. Which of course is why the hammer and deathdeala are so well represented. (~35% of fleets each) Also the Slamblasta is significantly less represented due to its weak 'special' armament @2 instead of what would be Equivalent of a strength 6 bombard (which is about 4 lances) and it loses out on the soopa engines.

Gorbags revenge is taken too, because of its launch bays, which like on the terror ship, are needed to help reduce the weakness of orks.

No one takes the Kroolboy... as it has none of these advantages. I mean... 126 lists and no Kroolboys? Bit absurd.

[lastspartacus]

http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc319/lastspartacus/RS%20Orks/

My Orks I made in celebration of the RS rules.  3 kill kroozers, 1 assault ship, 1 hammer class, 2 terror ships.

[barras1511]

I know that you have stated that you will not be changing the rules for orks but I would like you to think on the following. The leadership of the orks is great I love it. Giving them re-rolls out the wazoo is not. I prefer to a change to the orks that allows each ship to be unaffected by leadership failures in the fleet. Each failure will cause 1 hit on the ship, drop the shileds of the ship, allow on the minimum move of the ship with no turns and any penalty of the order attempted. This would represent the ships systems over loading because of the good old ork "Let's try this? Opps." trick. On the up side the orks fleet would completely ignore the stop all further ordes penalty for failing leadership tests.
Points would have to be modified to allow this but in current orks you want a small amount of ship squadrons and loads of rerolls to maximize efficiency. This is not Orky! Accidentally blowing your own ship to kingdom come because you try to get too much out of it is definitly Orky.

Rather than giving them imperial sheilding could you possibly give them a 5+ ork save that is taken against any successful damage in the same way as brace for impact. Bracing for impact would still be at 4+. Orks don't shake in fear as easierly as other races. You could limit this to a set number of successful saves. A cruzer could have 3 sheilds for example allowing 3 5+ saves (5 or 6) to be successfully made before dropping. I would prefer to leave it unlimited however.

Turrets could be a random dice roll. d6-x depending on the class of the ship. -3 for escorts, -2 for cruzers, -1 for battlekroozas and 0 for defenses.

In short Orks should have massed huge fleets. Low leadership game mehcanics do not allow for this to happen. Changes to the rules need to be made to let the orks match their fluff.

[Plaxor]

For some reason there are a lot of weird ideas out there to change the way orks work in BFG. I can't really grasp it.

So far I've seen:
Saves instead of shields
Ignore Leadership rules
Shields that come back up on a die roll
More turrets but worse ones
Lots of criticals but more weaponry

Usually these are way complicated

@Barras
Although your idea is certainly Orky, the orks usually build their ships out of wrecked hulks of other ships, usually these are IN, and use their technology poorly refitted by the ork crew. Animosity doesn't exist in 40k.

Orks need to have their weaknesses lessened and kept equivalent to each other. The damage they take from ordinance can't be greater than the potential damage past shields that they would take from something equivalent. However they both should be weaker than IN/Chaos equivalents.

They also should have proportionally worse weapons (although more at close ranges, which is the reason for heavy guns).

[lastspartacus]

whats wierd about it?

[barras1511]

@Barras
Although your idea is certainly Orky, the orks usually build their ships out of wrecked hulks of other ships, usually these are IN, and use their technology poorly refitted by the ork crew. Animosity doesn't exist in 40k.

I didn't bring up animosity.
Just because something is built a certain way by its designer does not mean it can not be altered to become something else entirely. The save would represent fluctuations of the power grids for example. The fluff on the orks states the orks can do things with technology that other races can't. Orks are intuitive not intelligent. Orks will always push for something more out of their ships and technology for the simple reason that they are too dumb not to!
My final point is simply no other fleet should ever be mistaken for orks. For this you need special rules.

[Zhukov]

"Zhukov's Claw"

"Zukov's Klaw"

LOL

In all seriousness though, what are you looking for? A character ship or a generic class name?

Hey Zukhov, pretend for a moment this was going to have a name, like "Zagreb's Terror" or something like that. What would you name it?

- Nate

You're seriously considering this one? Wow.... Um... it's very radically different than anything Orks have.... I honestly would build it differently, but I guess you could make it a character ship.

I would do something like this, more in theme with Ork ideology of how they would build an assault ship/competes less with Kill-Kroozers:

[Ship stats....]

This build is a lot more like what Orks currently have, and gets rid of assault boats, the Orks would probably not be clever enough for that. Zhukov's design is way too powerful compared to a Kill-kroozer (6+armor front and sides, with 25cm speed?) the speed issue is better covered by Soopa Engines, and Orks wouldn't put long-range weaponry on an Assault Kroozer.

I'll admit, it surprises me too they are considering this. I just saw what people were asking for in an Assault Kroozer type ship, put some numbers and values to it, and slapped a price tag on it as a starting point! Maybe Nate has created an alternate profile, unless playtesting this actually turned out well? I don't think my profile conflicts with Kill Kroozers since they are a gunship and mine, clearly is not, lol. Ork's not crafty enough for A-Boat only Launch Bays? How so? They already get A-Boats so why wouldn't a boarding designed vessel get them too? I think that's better than having side mounted, boarding torpedo tubes. And I believe this vessel shouldn't have flank guns because it runs counter to what this ship is designed to do. Not to mention, I can make the argument the builder removed the guns for added space for Boyz which is why they get 2 teleport attacks and double boarding value?

When I "designed" this, I was thinking of what a good boarding cruiser should be.
1. Speed to close (Faster than the other cruisers. Soopa Engines is a nifty idea actually...)
2. Armor heavy (If it's designed to go board space stations, it should have a good protection. Can't give an Ork cruiser more shields so I added more armor. I chose not to keep the rear at 4+ since this vessel wouldn't stand a chance against the Launch Bays a space station has so it would defeat the purpose!)
3. Ordnance Heavy (I figured a good way for this ship to survive it's way into the teeth of the enemy is if you knock the teeth out! With boarding torps and a-boats (which adds emphasis to the type of ship it is) you can easily knock out the weapons of an enemy vessel or station.)
4. Boarding heavy (Special rules for boarding value so it can take on Stations. 2 Teleport attacks gives it something to do if it can't quite ram or board. Power Ram, well what better way to make a door in an enemy ship ")
5. Guns light (I gave it just enough weapon strength so it CAN support other ships in the fleet and more importantly, take down shields of eventual ramming/boarding/teleport target.)

I can see setting speed at 20cm but adding Soopa Engines and reducing side armor to 5+. Also I could see changing the front Gunz to range 30cm, but that would be strange since the other Kroozers have 45cm. It wouldn't mesh as well in my opinion.

-Zhukov