Orkz - gib uz a brik

[flybywire-E2C]

Okay, now that the Tau, Space Marines and Rogue Traders are on the street to see how they settle in the wash, we should have a draft of the FAQ out by later tonight.

The next project we have in the hopper is the Ork Klans list featured in Fanatic Magazine #5. This was one of the big projects some of the designers wanted to have cemented, but some of the otherwise excellent ideas in that article were not smoothly executed, and it was not made official before Specialist Games shut down.  Here's the opening salvo:

• basic rules concerning the Orks will not be changed, such as their free AAF, poor leadership, etc.
• current capital ship profiles will NOT be changed.
• no new special order mechanic will be added to their core rules, such as freely re-rolling CTNH, etc.
• other stuff I can't think of right now.

However, here are some things we DO want to examine, maybe adjust and/or possibly introduce:

• minor tweaks to the escort profiles, as suggested in the Fanatic article.
• minor tweaks to what each klan can and can’t have, as well as what it should cost.
• Adding gubbinz that can be taken, such as a cleaned up version of WS Boyd’s Shokk Attack Lance and the Klaws refit from the 2001 Armageddon Ork fleet list.
• Introduction of the Grunt escort, as well as entertaining other escort ideas from the fans. The Orks should have the most varied escort fleet in the whole game, as every Nob and Mekboss out there is looking to make his stamp in the ‘ooniverse, and if ‘is ship haz some pretty good gubbinz, it’z likely to get copied!
• Caveats on Ork escorts- if someone has a cool idea, fit it inside a 40-point limit.
• The Gouga Lite Kroozer made perfect sense and is fluff true. Not every Nob or Mekboss starts out with a big ship ta terrorize the starz! Som’ Nob’s gottta start small an’ work ‘dere way up by swiping more hulls and whatnot! Caveat: the Gouga still counts as a kroozer so in kroozer-limited fleet lists, it’s like trying to pick between a Dictator and a Dauntless. However in smaller battles it might prove just the trick.

There are other things I’m not even thinking right now, as well as plenty of ideas, complaints, etc. that have been addressed on this thread and elsewhere on this forum. Now’s the time to bring it up!

Blindfold on and cigarette in mouth, I await your bolter rounds, shuriken shards, etc.

-   Nate

[horizon]

Hi Nate,

your mission should be:

"How to make Orks competitive enough so they do not need to have a fleet made up of 4 Terror Kroozers or more in 1500pts."

[flybywire-E2C]

Hi Nate,

your mission should be:

"How to make Orks competitive enough so they do not need to have a fleet made up of 4 Terror Kroozers or more in 1500pts."

We have a few ideas on how to make that happen, particularly from the Fanatic #5 Klans article. What other suggestions do you have? Keep in mind the Kill Kroozer, Terror ship, Hammer and battleships are not changing. The Ork's core rules are not changing either. Other than that, all suggestions are welcome.

You know something? I happen to love Orks, and Ray Bell in particular can tell you how lovingly detailed (and large!) my Ork fleet is. I rarely take more than two Terror Ships in 1500 points, but I am a BIG fan of escorts, LOTS of escorts! For 1500 points I will take two Terror Ships, a Kill Kroozer, four Roks (yep, FOUR), and all the rest Ork escorts, about half Brutes and half a mix of the bigger ones. Put the Roks in squads by themselves and write them off as destined to die. They will, but your opponent will spend so much energy afraid to let those things get behind his gun line because of how much slower they are than everything else, it forces him to split his firepower. Roks at 80 points a pop are the secret basement-bargain ship of the whole game! I have eight built and painted, but I rarely use more than four except in really big games because more than that, it almost feels like cheating. 

- Nate

[horizon]

I would just negate the Roks and focus on other stuff.

Have you read the Ork Tactica in Warp Rift 29?

The key to Ork victory is Terror Kroozers.

[Harrypotter]

I'd like to see an escort with an ' afta burna' that gives a half speed move but lets it fire the rear engines as a15 cm s1 lance in the rear arc or something.

[lastspartacus]

Why no plans to revise the capital ships?  Oh well, house rules are still fun

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

I really don't understand why either. And not only for one or two races but every race.

There's no more plans to print the books.

Everything is now Living Rulebook or Online.

It shouldn't be that hard to change problem ships or fleet lists.

Another mini company went on a major revision of almost every model it had in its lineup and they STILL printed books afterwards. I don't see any reason why ships should not be changed as long as it fits the fluff and the rules are not OTT.

[lastspartacus]

If this really is the case, all agreed this thread can be for a competative houserule set?

[flybywire-E2C]

If this really is the case, all agreed this thread can be for a competative houserule set?

How about this: if I could design a variant Kill Kroozer or Terror ship, what would it look like?

The Ork Klans rules lets you pay to swap heavy gunz for 30cm lances (15cm on escorts).

The 'Ammer lets you have B-cannon OR torps, at the same time! unlike the named battleships, there's no limit on 'Ammers except the two kroozers for one 'Ammer rule.

With all the Mad Meks and Warbosses, I'm sure there are kroozers and Terrors out there that don't fit the norm. Ideas?

- Nate

[Sigoroth]

I really don't understand why either. And not only for one or two races but every race.

There's no more plans to print the books.

Everything is now Living Rulebook or Online.

It shouldn't be that hard to change problem ships or fleet lists.

Another mini company went on a major revision of almost every model it had in its lineup and they STILL printed books afterwards. I don't see any reason why ships should not be changed as long as it fits the fluff and the rules are not OTT.

Agreed. I'm sure that if the community and HAs came up with a fun, balanced and fluffy set of rules and profiles for all races and models in a single comprehensive and professional document and then submitted it to SG they'd be amenable to officially stamping it BFG 2.0. Likely get a plug in White Dwarf and front page ad space on all the GW websites.

[lastspartacus]

2.0 needs to happen.  If not, then I fully plan on the tedious task of adding all the errata and original rules together in a revised core rule pdf, with revised race rules as well, for the sake of my playgroup

[fracas]

With all the revision GW should repackage and sell it as 2.0
Yes sell it

[flybywire-E2C]

With all the revision GW should repackage and sell it as 2.0
Yes sell it

Okay folks, here's what's going on, and I'm skirting the edge of what we can talk about and what we can't.  BFG 2.0 almost happened. I mean really really almost happened, with Andy C and Matt Keefe elbow-deep into it. As the Living Rulebook was being created, the new Nova Cannon and Reload ordnance rules were but a first step in what was supposed to eventually be BFG 2.0. Instead of changing any of the profiles, significant changes were going to happen to the core rule-set that would have made the profiles (in their unchanged form) behave significantly different than they do now. Imagine race-specific weapon battery behavior, violent boarding actions, recalibrated ordnance, etc. The debates were completed and the rule-set was about 90% solidified just before (unfortunately) everything was unplugged, the reasons for which are beyond the scope of this post.

That option is now gone, and if one interpretes our NDA in the strictest sense, all those materials are not to see the light of day. What we are trying to do with the new FAQ/Errata/Additions is to incorporate small tweaks and changes to make the game better without tapping too deeply into the rule sets we are longer supposed to access. Think of the 2010 FAQ/Errata more as BFG 1.5 than a re-vamp of the entire game.

As per our guidance straight from design leadership, BFG is NOT to be re-written. The point of the FAQ/Errata/Additions  is to incorporate as much change as we can without violating that guidance. The more skewered to the left or the right we take this thing, the greater the possibility exists the improvements we are trying to make will simply be rejected.

Here's my master plan. I say "my" only because I freely admit it's wishful thinking, and I have NOT conversed this with the other HA's. The Eldar refits and three draft rule packages are just the first salvo in a group of small projects the HA's are going to be working on in the next few months to address everything in the game still left unfinished. Once that's complete and we push it to the GW website, we are hoping the renewened interest provides them the incentive to let us crack open the core rule-set. if THAT happens and we get permission to make public our materials on BFG 2.0, we can post everything here, and the fans can pick at it as we please. Imagine it- a revised BFG rebuilt from the ground up with full input from the fans themselves.

Baby steps, everyone. Baby steps will get us there.

This post was not reviewed by or discussed with any of the other HA's before I posted it. I bear full and sole responsibility for any consequences of this post.

- Nate

[fracas]

Thanks for the info

[horizon]

Oh frick, GW are really a bunch of.... <removed>.

If memory serves me right BFG2.0 was in process before the latest rulebook. The latest rulebook took on the mayor wishes like Nova Cannon and Ordnance limits (yay all). Some point changes (eg Styx, Emperor-Retribution) players asked for and point + profile (!) changes no one asked for (Orks) (Blame Andy C himself I think).
Many wondered if it was the new 2.0 but if memory serves it was Bob who called it 1.5*.

That 1.5 rulebook is a bad book. Look at the Nova Cannon: rules with scatter, diagram with guess. Point swaps not in all places. Rules forgotten: Repulsive shield. Rules forgotten and only recently Ray found out (the asteroid field rules on AAF). Some other things.

The book was a bad decision in hindsight.

* If the current book is 1.5 then the FAQ2010 makes it more or less 1.75.

What I find is odd why GW is so secure on the rules not being shown/used. I mean, back then it costed them money, now they could just make em free. Have a freelance HA and fans chew and work on it. Do all the work for them and only host the pdf's without makings costs to create a bound book.

Also Nate, you did not give anything away so your NDA remains safe. You just confirmed what many already thought to believe.

Although some changes you hinted are are extremely worrying

But I approve of the HA's approach.

I don't know who is the guidance setter is for BFG from the GW team but Jervis has allowed the Epic: Armageddon team to do a lot of work and changes to the core rules.

I would find it cool if the GW responsible would show up and explain why changes are not allowed. Okay, given, as long as the blue book is being produced/sold changes are indeed off limtis.