Dark Eldar rules changes?

[horizon]

Hi,

with the idea of the HA to allow the Void Stalker in the CWE list a cool DE battleship should be allowed as well.

There is a part about a single Void Stalker hunting an Ork Hulk. In armada. Guess it is needed to hunt down that time frame and compare it to other time settings.
But I cannot phantom Ravensburg being the "creator" for such a vessel.

People always say Corsairs should have small ships but in an Eldar mind set it could go two ways: see they are dying in a way and need to be careful of their people.

Lots of small ships means that few die at a time when a small ship explodes.
A bigger ship offers more protection which means less people die because of small causes, however if it goes down a lot of them die.

So, what would you do? All in one basket, all or none die. Or spread your people and accept the occassional deaths?

[Zell_G]

But I cannot phantom Ravensburg being the "creator" for such a vessel.

Of course not (it would be absurd), as I said I thought it would be some sort of help from Ravensburg, like that he "borrowed" them a ShipYard capable of building a vessel "out of normal Corsair scale" , but nothing more .

But, history apart, the "all in one basket" should be apossibility for Dark Eldar too (in my humble opinion)

[patghiggins]

I agree that DE should have a larger ship.  Dread Archon's and Archon are are hyper arrogant , conceited, and  egotistical. I would think that they would want to have something bigger something along the line of a Flame but with options to show the diversity of the different Cabals

Sort of like
Hit's 8 -- Speed 30 -- turn 90 -- Shadowfields -- Armor 5 -- Turret 0
WB       30cm    12   L/F/R
Torps    30cm     4       F
Phanton 45cm     2       F
Luanch Bay         2

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

No, it appeared during the alliance with Admiral Ravensburg. Nothing in the text actually says it was built that time. In fact the text even says that before, during and after the Gothic War, it has never been defeated.

"For almost the entirety of the Gothic War, Eldar fleets were composed mostly of Escort ships accompanied by a few Cruisers. However, after the battle of Gethsemane and the alliance of many of the Eldar pirate fleets with Lord Ravensburg, a new terror was to hunt across the stars."

The paragraph says that during the entire Gothic War Eldar fleets where composed of Escort accompanied by cruisers, and that only after the alliance with Ravensburg the new ship "appeared".

Reading that paragraph I've understood that before that alliance the ship didn't exists at all (because it seems that the alliance with Ravensburg and the battle of Gethesmane are the two main events that led to the "appearance") ; but of course it isn't the only way of interpretation, I concur .
I thought that Ravensburg had borrowed them some Shipyards for the costrunction 

I don't remember if there is something more about that events on Armada or some other book....

Again read further on to see the part I described. If it was created during or after Gethsemane, then it would not have existed before the Gothic War.

[lastspartacus]

It would be pretty neat actually if the CWE also had a dedicated battleship of their own.  Makes more sense for them to have one even than the corsairs.  Maybe they do.
I'm at work and can't pull up the PDF at the moment, and I only read the corsair part, cuz I like them most.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Ray Bell prefers to allow the CWE access to the VS and the CE have a harder time getting it. At least that's what I recall.

[lastspartacus]

Ah. I always thought it was a more corsair ship.  

Edit:  Ah, the CWE have the Wyrm class.  Poor corsairs dont have one and CWE get two

[Zell_G]

Again read further on to see the part I described. If it was created during or after Gethsemane, then it would not have existed before the Gothic War.

Sorry, I admit that i'm not an history expert, I didn't know that the other facts occurred during the Gothic War : I thought that they were subsequent   

[Yegr]

I think that anything bigger then a cruiser in a DE fleet is completly unfluffy.
DE are a raiding force. They choose on what ground they wish to fight, and therefore there is no real need for them to have a battlecruiser/battleship class ship- DE generally don't fight "battles" in sense of a meeting engagement of two large fleets. They don't fight to control space (unlike CWE and CE), thus they don't need very large ships.

I might be missing something in which case I'll be happy to hear a reasonable explanation why the DE should have bigger ships then they do have right now.

[lastspartacus]

They are usually encountered in raiding forces, but if you think they don't have higher agendas, or don't have things larger than cruisers patrolling their part of the webway around Commoragh...well, I just dont see it.

[horizon]

Yegr, read my arguments. Plus, in the slavetaking department and the mental state of Archon's or Haemonculi a battleship is more warranted in a Dark Eldar fleet then in a Corsair fleet.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

I think that anything bigger then a cruiser in a DE fleet is completly unfluffy.
DE are a raiding force. They choose on what ground they wish to fight, and therefore there is no real need for them to have a battlecruiser/battleship class ship- DE generally don't fight "battles" in sense of a meeting engagement of two large fleets. They don't fight to control space (unlike CWE and CE), thus they don't need very large ships.[/quote[

Same arguments can be said for both CWE and CE. They all prefer to hide and run rather than have to fight. Eldar have no more penchant for fighting to control space any more than DE. Sorry but you have to do better to convince me DE can't have their own battleship.

I might be missing something in which case I'll be happy to hear a reasonable explanation why the DE should have bigger ships then they do have right now.

It's called the Void Stalker.

[Yegr]

Yegr, read my arguments. Plus, in the slavetaking department and the mental state of Archon's or Haemonculi a battleship is more warranted in a Dark Eldar fleet then in a Corsair fleet.

Yes I did. And I can see nothing that would stand in relation to my reservations - I still don't see a reason for them using a battleship. The DE are practically the only race in wh40k universe that can pick their battles where and when they like. They attack where they can find easy prey.
What would they need a battleship for?
I'm not questioning it would be good for them to have one, but so would be more torpedoes for chaos, more shields for space marine vessels etc. But there isn't much in way of fluff that I can see, that would lead in this direction.

As for the argument about a BB being a result of some DE megalomania: building a ship of this size requires not only mental illness (what you suggest), but also power- power that comes form some sort of cunning, treachery etc.
A Archon who use much of his/her's power to construct such a ship would most likely be betrayed and killed along the way. There is a fine line between being paranoid and alive, and completely mad and soon to be dead.
A Heamonculi should be a figure behind building a DE BB? - that's not really in his'/her's type of interests.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Yes I did. And I can see nothing that would stand in relation to my reservations - I still don't see a reason for them using a battleship. The DE are practically the only race in wh40k universe that can pick their battles where and when they like. They attack where they can find easy prey.
What would they need a battleship for?

Anything smaller than a battleship would definitely count as easy prey wouldn't it?

As for the argument about a BB being a result of some DE megalomania: building a ship of this size requires not only mental illness (what you suggest), but also power- power that comes form some sort of cunning, treachery etc.
A Archon who use much of his/her's power to construct such a ship would most likely be betrayed and killed along the way. There is a fine line between being paranoid and alive, and completely mad and soon to be dead.
A Heamonculi should be a figure behind building a DE BB? - that's not really in his'/her's type of interests.

A battleship need not be a result of being built after the DE split off from their cousins. It could already have been in existence at the time. Sure the usual betrayal and killing would be the norm even in such a ship. Then again, wouldn't a ship like that be something worthwhile to kill for? 

[patghiggins]

It might be good to see what kind of fluff they put in the the new 40K Codex, to give us a better idea of how the DE would deploy different ship types