Assaunlt Boats hit escorts on a 4+ ??

[Zelnik]

Thus we hit the problem.

I will support the rules we have come up with, AS LONG AS: the Nids do NOT get campaign upgrades in one shot games!

[lastspartacus]

When you say campaign upgrades, do you mean the ones at the end of the pdf that let you do things such as, say, get a hiveship from 10 to 14 HP?

[Vaaish]

yes, the evolution of the hive mind refits. I don't think any other race outside of nids are allowed to use refits outside of a campaign and the ability to jack their hive ship up with them is a bit problematic.

[lastspartacus]

Ah.  Makes sense then.  But why then would it have points next to the refits if its not meant for one off games?

If it helps balance though, of course, throw it out.

[russ_c]

yes, the evolution of the hive mind refits. I don't think any other race outside of nids are allowed to use refits outside of a campaign and the ability to jack their hive ship up with them is a bit problematic.

Apparently the posted SM Draft PDF allows them too take refits as well for +20 points each.  So in the current incarnation you can pickup a 8HP Strike Cruiser for 165points via "Reinforced Hull".  Sorry about the tangent...

Russ

[horizon]

This draft should not be taken as is. It should be discarded.

[Zhukov]

In regards to "tough to kill Tyranids", I think it is totally un-fluffly to make the most reliable way to kill a Tyranid escort ship is to essentially "board" it. Should find something else that gives the Tyranid's a weakness. Maybe giving Kraken 5+ armor and everything else 4+ armor? This would make sense to me. Nids should be nigh unstoppable at close actions, so logically that makes ranged defence weaker for game balance. Thoughts?

-Zhukov

[Zell_G]

In regards to "tough to kill Tyranids", I think it is totally un-fluffly to make the most reliable way to kill a Tyranid escort ship is to essentially "board" it. Should find something else that gives the Tyranid's a weakness. Maybe giving Kraken 5+ armor and everything else 4+ armor? This would make sense to me. Nids should be nigh unstoppable at close actions, so logically that makes ranged defence weaker for game balance. Thoughts?

But Tyranids are also VERY slow compared to others : giving them an inferior armour value would make them a "too easy target" for almost every other race, especially if the Nids can't take the refits from the Evoloution of the Hive Mind anymore in one-off game (which I think is a really good idea)
(IMHO)
P.S. : Sorry for the intrusion 

[lastspartacus]

Testing...needed.

I always did feel them having better armor than some adamantine armored equives was kinda silly, but...testing needed.

[Zhukov]

I completely agree that if the armor values are reduced, then the Evolutions need to come back. I think the Evolutions are needed for one off games for Nids to be successful anyway but their should be a limit imposed on how much you can take.

Playtesting definately needed.

-Zhukov

[Vaaish]

Zel, there's been plenty of play testing with the Nids and evolutions. I mean, it's not like the rules just came out yesterday and it's not chance happening that two of the evolutions are taken as many times as possible. Will losing the evolutions in one of games make nids weaker? Yes, it will, but it isn't going to kill the fleet.

[Zell_G]

Zel, there's been plenty of play testing with the Nids and evolutions. I mean, it's not like the rules just came out yesterday and it's not chance happening that two of the evolutions are taken as many times as possible. Will losing the evolutions in one of games make nids weaker? Yes, it will, but it isn't going to kill the fleet.

Well yes, i completely agree with you, maybe i didn't make myself clear on what I was trying to say
(Sorry, English is not my native language) .

I was trying to say that I agree with the restrictions on the Evolutions in one off games ,
but I'm not convinced on also reducing their armour value, as suggested by Zhukow

Maybe, as suggested by Zhukow again, lowering their armour without losing the Evolutions in one off games could be a solution .
But for now, I would prefer losing the Evolutions, but keeping the armour value as they are .

[Vaaish]

ah sorry about that... too many names starting with Z around here. That was actually pointed at Zhukov.

[horizon]

zzzzz

I think no changes are needed to the Nid fleet and rules in combination with this assault boat change. Ofcourse the evolution thing should be gone for one -off games.

[Zell_G]

zzzzz

I think no changes are needed to the Nid fleet and rules in combination with this assault boat change. Ofcourse the evolution thing should be gone for one -off games.

That's what I think too