Assaunlt Boats hit escorts on a 4+ ??

[Caine-HoA]

"This (proposed) rule change is one of the best since launch bay limits and scattering nova cannons."

Signed

[Vaaish]

Impalers function exactly like an assault boat, but on a 2+ they cause a FULL crit, the way the rules work, the escort survives on a 4+

See what i mean? try and change ONE stinkin' rule, and everything goes to shit.. we really should just leave the rules as they stand.

Why is this an issue? If anything it will just cause DE to target other ships with the impaler if it makes it worse, or if it makes it better (much more likely since I think the procedure would be to roll the d6 for to see if the run is successful and then see if the combined 2d6 roll is a 4+ killing the escort.) This is NOT grounds to scrap the entire proposed change.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Impalers function exactly like an assault boat, but on a 2+ they cause a FULL crit, the way the rules work, the escort survives on a 4+

See what i mean? try and change ONE stinkin' rule, and everything goes to shit.. we really should just leave the rules as they stand.

What's the problem? The escort will go on BFI. They're rendered ineffective come their turn. So far the rules have not been changed that one ship in a squadron going on BFI will result in all ships in a squadron going on BFI. A ship/squadron on BFI is a plus for me.

[horizon]

And to add: why would a DE ship waste an Impaler on an escort in any form of rules?

[Zelnik]

Look, I am not justifying the use of impalers on escorts, but the end result is IT CAN HAPPEN, so we must address it in rules!

[Vaaish]

The rules don't always address every possible situation that can happen. That's what we have FAQ's to explain the nuances and if it comes down to it, roll off to see what happens.

[Zhukov]

SPEAKING AS A DARK ELDAR PLAYER

I see this A-Boats rules change as a GREAT thing for the game!

The Impaler is NOT an A-Boat squadron, therefore it should still work normally as it does right now vs escorts (turrets hit it on 6, 2+ for successful crit attack, BFI can save this). Impalers should be DEVASTATING to escort ships. If you are putting out a Module that has enough warriors to hypothetically give a bulkhead collapse to a capital ship, then an escort sized ship is doomed if it's turrets cant drive it off. Impalers dwarf A-Boat squadrons in terms of warriors so keeping the 2+ roll to successfully do a Crit (and in the case of escorts, destroy the ship) should stay.

@Horizon- DE escorts can have Impalers, meaning they have the speed to catch and devastate enemy escorts in the opening phases of the game. Since the DE cruisers have no advantage to carrying Impalers over the escorts, it frees them up for the other weapons (especially traditional Launch Bays). I have used them as this and they are highly effective at stripping enemy fleet of all their escort ships early on so the DE escorts can harass the capital ships freely.

-Zhukov

[horizon]

Okay, cool with me. Keep Impalers at +2. As it is already a special weapon I see no problem with it. The rules make it so the Impaler can be lost forever. So balanced right away.

[Vaaish]

I'd be fine with the impalers as well.

[lastspartacus]

So escorts can indeed BFI the crit hits?

I really support the 4+, the more I think about it.

Sure, let the Impaler be. 

With the boost that this will give nids, I fully support the removal of the -1 that nids benefit from. 
All is pretty much lost if they are within teleport range anyway, I like the idea of desperate teleport actions for those mad enough to close.

[horizon]

Yeah, h&r, teleports etc can be BFI'ed. Was in older FAQ as well.

I wouldn't remove the Nid rule.

[lastspartacus]

I say that simply because the rule never made much sense to me.  As the ships may be less navigable, I also don't see swarms of combat organisms just walking around the halls in between planets, ready to react at a moments notice.  I see them being able to respond after being brought out of hibernation.

[Don Gusto]

With the boost that this will give nids, I fully support the removal of the -1 that nids benefit from. 

There is no -1 modifier to H&R against Tyranids. H&R attacks against Tyranids have to roll 2 dice and take the lowest.
While this is even better the "4+" would be a general rules change and as such doesn't require further, fleet specific, considerations. Whatever advantage Tyranid escorts have now, they should have in the future as well.

[Zhukov]

Agreed. Tyranid rule about defending H&R attacks should stay even with this proposed rules change.

-Zhukov

@Spartacus- Tyranid ships may not have warriors roaming on the inside of the ships but surely they dont have hallways and corridors either!! I imagine teleport attacks and such are transporting a squad of warriors INTO a vital organ to detonate explosives on the walls of it (killing the escort sized creature). The reason for the defensive modifier is for two reasons: 1. It's hard to move around in a liver, lol. 2. I imagine Tyranids would have immune systems that would be attacking anyone doing the H&R attacks.

[lastspartacus]

I don't deny the fluffyness of it, really.  Its just a balance thing. 

1.  You are utterly boned as it is if you get that close to nids.

2.  The universal 4+ change makes tyranid escorts even tougher, and it has always bothered me how well armored the nids can be with just organic armor.  So you have, already, very tough, very numerous, very deadly nid escorts to kill, you make them harder to hit with a reliable kill tactic that some fleets have, and then if you keep the current 2-dice-take-lowest, they are even more gauranteed to stick around.

I love the way nids play for the most part, but if you have such a hard hitting, cheap, vast swarm, it shouldnt be harder to kill than pricier, adamantine clad space ships.