Assaunlt Boats hit escorts on a 4+ ??

[Zelnik]

here is a shocker for you all... I really don't mind this too much.

Here are my concerns on the matter though.

Right now the best way to defeat tyranid escorts is via assault boats (especially those thrice damned krakens).  While everyone else gets a 'comfortable' boost to their escort capabilities, the nids, who use them HEAVILY, have their staying power go through the proverbial roof.

I don't want to sound like an ass so much, but just because one fleet is less played (nids) then others (everyone else), doesn't mean you should forget them.  Nid escorts are CHEAP as SPIT, and they can swarm the table with them. With the current rules, A-boats are now the most effective means of surviving the "bazillion feeder tentacle attack" tactic.

[horizon]

Ha!

One more reason to add the rule. Thanks Zelnik.

Assaulting Nids should be a disaster. These are the close combat specialists!

[Caine-HoA]

Ok if only SM have the bonus its ok.

[lastspartacus]

Ha!

One more reason to add the rule. Thanks Zelnik.

Assaulting Nids should be a disaster. These are the close combat specialists!

Thats a point.

[russ_c]

I'm sorry for being really slow on this one, but your suggesting that I can BFI prior to the H&R attack roll and IF their are any successful H&R (+4 , +3 SM ) I still get the +4 save for BFI as a last ditch effort to save my escort?  I just want to make sure I understand that you also get the BFI as a second roll.

That means an escort on BFI who faces a H&R gets a 75% chance of staying on the table or 58% against SM.  This greatly increases their survivability.  I'm cool with that!

Russ

[Zelnik]

There is already a rule in place to represent that, Horizon, all H and R attacks are at -1.  That's all they need.

Against a nid escort, you need a 5+ to do anything under these new rules.

PLEASE understand that when i make this argument, you are taking away strength from assault boat heavy fleets (SPACE MARINES, dark eldar, chaos, etc) and giving it to escort strong fleets (Eldar, Tyranids).


So unless you can justify giving Tyranids, one of the strongest fleets in the game who (evidently) can use campaign upgrades (since they removed the restriction from the WIP pdf), and have access to more ordnance then any other fleet as it is... NO this should not be implemented.

[Vaaish]

wait, what? the nids got their campaign refits back in one of games? that is VERY VERY bad. How are you figuring that you need a 5+ to do anything? I assumed that they nids only gained the +1 when THEY were performing the hit and run attack, not when they were the target based on this line "The Tyranid player adds +1 to the result when making hit-&-run raids" (emphasis mine). following that, I thought that the intent was the 4+ to successfully destroy the escort was only modified if the side performing the attack was granted +1 to the critical roll.

Nids would still be bad since you have to roll the 2d6 and take the lowest to making the odds, what 25% to kill an escort with an aboat?

[Zelnik]

shows ya what i know, your right it's 2d6 pick the lowest.  

I still think an impaler assault module should kill em on the 2+ one way or another.

[lastspartacus]

Well, I'd say the easy fix would be to get rid of the -1 to hit and run attacks.

[Vaaish]

sparticus, there isn't anything to fix. the +1 isn't a defensive bonus, it's only for the side that is attacking and provides flavor to several of the races.

[horizon]

I agree.

Aren't Impalers a whole different kinda of weapon? So they could keep something special...

AS it stands 50% of the fleets has assault boats and the other half doesn't.

[KivArn]

Yup, i like this

[lastspartacus]

sparticus, there isn't anything to fix. the +1 isn't a defensive bonus, it's only for the side that is attacking and provides flavor to several of the races.

I'm  speaking of the -1 hit and run attacks against the nids suffer.

[Zelnik]

Impalers function exactly like an assault boat, but on a 2+ they cause a FULL crit, the way the rules work, the escort survives on a 4+

See what i mean? try and change ONE stinkin' rule, and everything goes to shit.. we really should just leave the rules as they stand.

[horizon]

No way Zelnik. We are pretty close to changing the game to the better. A lot better. The Main reason a lot people ditch escorts is because of the dreaded a-boat auto kill.

One race should not determine the game. The Nids aren't that uber strong, except the over-graded Hiveship.

For the record, from now on the Impaler worked like an assault boat.
The Impaler already has added SPECIAL rules opposed to assault boats, thus it is in no way an assault boat.


IIRC Ray Bell was in favour of changing the Impaler. I don't know what Bob/Nate think about this though.

I think it is the other way around: Do not change the rules and it stays sh*t.

Yes, I admit, I don't face or play Nids (one opponent does have Nids in the painting phase) but I really give nothing about a DE Impaler or defeating Nids with assault boats.

Assault boats are still a good instrument.



This (proposed) rule change is one of the best since launch bay limits and scattering nova cannons.