Assaunlt Boats hit escorts on a 4+ ??

[flybywire-E2C]

Hi! One of the most annoying long-term issues that has annoyed the BFG community is the weakness of escorts against a-boats. An interestingly simple and elegant solution was proposed on the BFG-List, and the HA's are currently hashing it out. Here's the proposal:

Due to their much smaller size, escorts do not have a specialized critical table. Instead, assault boats and any other hit and run attack destroys escorts on a roll of 4+ (as opposed to 2+). Fleets that enjoy a bonus to their hit and run rolls still benefit from this bonus, needing a 3+ to succeed in hit and run attacks.

Now of course, I am almost certain that someone out there is going to totally hate this. Once again, all I ask is that we all respect each other's opinions. Thanks.

- Nate

[horizon]

Hi,
I'm good with it.
cheers,
horizon

ps what about boarding torps? They have to pass through armour first, then make their hit&run. Keep them the same?
Teleport attacks? Need shields to be down first and are more tricky to use.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Escorts can BFI the H&R attack anyway right? So am good with it.

[Vaaish]

I think this sounds fair. Marines retain a slightly better capability to take down escorts and escorts gain some needed durability.

One question, how does BFI impact this roll? Can escorts BFI and gain a 4+ saves rather than a 3+?

[flybywire-E2C]

I think this sounds fair. Marines retain a slightly better capability to take down escorts and escorts gain some needed durability.

One question, how does BFI impact this roll? Can escorts BFI and gain a 4+ saves rather than a 3+?

We haven't even begun to discuss it, but BFI will still work normally as it does now. Cruisers can BFI H&R damage if they desire to, there just isn't a lot of incentive to do so unless they happen to already be braced so there isn't anything to change.

What we are looking at to make it simpler is to require a 4+ roll for ANY H&R attack against escorts (b-torps, teleporting, etc.). This new rule is not intended to be a save. In other words, escorts now get a crit table, a very simple one that requires no bookkeeping whatsoever. 4+ means the escort survives to fight on. <4+ means engine room hit (or whatever) +1Hp damage and the escort dies. BFI works normally against any crit except boarding actions, just like they do now, and SM's still get their +1 bonus.

BTW: This is NOT official yet! Bob likes it, but we haven't tested it for bugs, and Ray is still out of town.

- Nate


 

[lastspartacus]

I completely support this, and I'm glad it came up.  Don't see enough escorts as it is.

[Vaaish]

BFI works normally against any crit except boarding actions, just like they do now, and SM's still get their +1 bonus

So you are saying that an escort could ALSO BFI against the hit and run and gain a second 4+ against the H&R?

Secondarily, this means boarding torpedoes much roll vs armor to hit and then roll a 4+ against escorts?

for example, the situation could play out like this:
AB touches base of escort.
Escort braces.
AB survives turrets.
AB rolls 4+
Escort passes brace save and is not destroyed.

I don't mind if this is the case as it significantly improves the durability of escorts, but I think it should be clear that the 4+ is more of a to hit roll rather than a save.

[horizon]

I think Nate mixed up in that line. It is as you line out, the AB needs a 4+ to be succesfull. This dice roll replace the current critical hit roll (eg 2+ is death escort).

[fracas]

I am good with this

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

So to summarize:

1. ABs need to roll a base 4+ to make a successful H&R attack vs Escorts. This is subject to race modifiers.

2. Escorts can BFI and get a 4+ save vs successful H&R attacks.

That basically it?

[horizon]

As far as I see: yes.

[Caine-HoA]

As far as i understand it, it would be a great way of seeing more Escorts on the battlefleet, especially against some fleets like chaos. Btw does chaos have a H&R bonus? If they have one th rule should renamed into +3, because as i see it all fleets that make heavy use of Assault Boats do have a H&R bonus (if i remember correctly that whould be SM, Chaos and Orcs).

[trynerror]

Chaos needs CSM to get a bonus for a-boats.

[Don Gusto]

This is a good idea, but ...

wasn't BFI save to H&R introduced mainly to improve escort survivability? Maybe this could be ditched then.

It's still a good idea though.

Btw does chaos have a H&R bonus? If they have one th rule should renamed into +3, because as i see it all fleets that make heavy use of Assault Boats do have a H&R bonus (if i remember correctly that whould be SM, Chaos and Orcs).

Chaos and Ork have a +1 boarding modifier. SM get +2 for boarding.
Only SM and few specials get a +1 to H&R (e.g. Ork Refit 'Improved Tellyportas').

[horizon]

@ Don Gusto

wasn't BFI save to H&R introduced mainly to improve escort survivability? Maybe this could be ditched then.

Yes it was but is was not sufficient enough and since capital ships got the same BFI save vs Hit and Runs it did not improve escorts towards capital ship.
if you ditch the BFI save, add the 4+ attack roll escorts would become weaker!

Thus the BFI save can (and must) be kept.
Assaults succes on 4+ dice. Yay.