Whoops yes. 6. So? Use the WBs if you want. You're still rolling on the Escort column. I'm sure as hell not sending them in as one wave. Most likely in waves of 2. So that's 2 dice to roll needing 6+. Sure you can fire as a squadron. Try it and if you hit, good for you. If not, you're SDMs are dead. Mass away. Sooner or later you'll miss one or two and those one or two will start whittling the SDMs down.
Not now that you have to roll 3+ to kill a escort with an aboat. Since it's 13 dice, odds are good for at least 2 sixes.
So what about FP24 WB? You're still using the Escort column to roll against the THs needing 6+. Again, I'm not sending everything in one wave. So the WBs get to fire only once assuming you can get the THs in the correct arc. After which you then need 4+ for the 4 turrets, not 5 since you are talking about 3 ships. What's the issue with that? Sooner than later, one SDM will die so now you go down to 3 2 SDMs at FP16 and 3 turrets. aside from which the SCs can now charge in and go for the kill.
Granted, for some reason I was thinking 4 in a squadron instead of 3 when I did the turret math. Since the entire WB is f/l/r gettign them in the right arc is not as big a problem as you might think.
Seriously? You think you can corner a speed 25 cm 90' turning ship on a 6' x 4' table with Spd 10 cm 45' turning models? SM might not be Necrons but you sure don't know SM capabilities. Dude, I suggest you proxy and play them first before you even start thinking about asking for goodies for SM.
Don't insult my intelligence. While yes, against one slow moving herd you can't corner them. Against three slow moving herds, yes, you can. Otherwise defeating necrons would be impossible as IN.
Really? You don't even know what my exact plans are. The point of my plan is you use the THs to handle the SDMs. How I do it, whether I use a plan similar to skating tortoises is up to me to execute.
Um, D'Art, you told the plan in detail.
Really? How? I just send in my 9 THs to eat your 8 SDMs one at a time by rolling 3+ to kill them. When they get down to 4 or less SDMs, the SCs now charge in and assist with the eating. Really, it's obvious you don't know how to deal with SDMs using SCs.
The SMART SM player sends his THs against the SDMs and kill them one at a time. The SMART SM player will send his SCs to the rear of the SDMs.
Which, again, would mean that your plan was to sit at the back of the THs and throw in waves until you whittled them down and then tried to maneuver aft of them and fire. The problem is, again, you're only FP 2 if they're moving away. With a lance this plan is somewhat more viable, as you get that str 2 lance as long as they're in range.)
Why wouldn't anyone take it if the option is there? Even at +20, people will be willing to take it.
Only if they're willing to deliberatly cripple their fleet to be fluffy. Good for casual games, not good for the tourney scene.
What is it the SM really need? Do they need better offense? They already have a good arsenal. Weapon batteries, Bombardment Cannons, Resilient Thunderhawk Bombers and Assault Boats, Torpedoes, Boarding Modifiers, Hit & Run Bonus. Those are quite good already especially compared to the baseline IN fleet. Even the Escorts are better than their IN counterparts. You can even ram to your heart's content knowing you can survive the encounter much better.
Um, actually, their WBs aren't that good. Most are short ranged and fairly weak, with exceptions like SO. Further, not every list has all those things.
How about defense? They do have 6+ all around armor but the fact is, their turrets and shields are below average compared to their IN counterparts. The SC hurts with 1 shield against opponents with lances. Even the Battle Barge can get mobbed.
And I agree that the Sc should get +1 shield. Your point?
No, you are currently being proposed to be given it. You don't have it yet. Which is why we are trying to prevent it to maintain balance since SM were given BCs to compensate for the lack of lances. Which is why this debate is up and about. The problem is next time SM players will be demanding lances on the Battle Barge. Long range lances at that. You wish.
The problem is the 12 in gun is not on a submarine. It is on a cruiser. A very resilient cruiser which thus can be called a battlecruiser if not a battleship. The 12 in gun on a submarine is called a Nova and Firestorm. Those ought to be enough for you, esp since you can bring 3 of them for 1 lance SC and have more lances than you can ever have if you just field the lance SCs.
Wow, D'art, did hyperbola just run wild in your post there or what? Tell me, how adding that str 2 lance will make it the equal of an Apoc or an Armageddon class, I'm curious there. Particularly since the common Gothic seems to clean it's clock.
And, again, it's not about 'Well, take this other ship instead' it's about options on the SC. Tell me how giving the SC a lance makes it broken. I have not see you present one shred of information to back up the idea that an SC with a str 2 lance is suddenly some sort of super ship killer. None.
And, frankly, what you idiots have done with SO is far worse then if it had kept it's Str 6 lances. We did proxy that one up. It crossed the T against an Apoc that failed it's BFI and while, it didn't quite one shot it, it was reduced to three HP and received shields down, smashed bridge, on fire, thrusters hit, and an engine hit. Needless to say, it did not live out the next turn when the SO burned retros.
A
Desolater, universes nastiest lance boat, couldn't pull that off. I think your cries of 'balance' ring rather hollow in the face of that.
Yes, it must suck, because they were designed to suck at any other task then the ones they were specifically designed for.
If i see another moron say "space marines train for thousands of years!" I am going to break the universe. Most space marines do not survive being a scout, much less make it to tactical marine status, or higher. Most space marines live a few hundred years before their geneseed is destroyed, lost, or corrupted.
It is a RARE marine that lives a thousand years.
Space marines are trained to be combat specialists, surgical strikers on the ground and inside enemy vessels. Specialization breeds weakness, and that manifests itself in their low combat rating, and forced restriction from most heavy vessels.
Part of the question is: Since a Strike Cruiser is designed as a first responder, it is going to require a certain amount of anti-ship weaponry. The Ultramarines, who are the very posterboys of being a Codex chapter use torps on their SCs. I do not see the difference between a torpedo, which is by it's very nature as anti-ship as it gets, and a lance battery, other then the the fact that the chapter is required to produce less ordinance.
Two hundred years seems to be fairly common though. Certain chapters have a tendency toward longer lifespans (Blood Angels) and have more members above the five century mark.
