Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development

[Mazila]

Aye it is confusing thats why we ask to clarify it properly in a FAQ. Sometimes rules and FAQ does not take into account all possible applications of a rule

[Sigoroth]

Aye it is confusing thats why we ask to clarify it properly in a FAQ. Sometimes rules and FAQ does not take into account all possible applications of a rule

Look, I'll be the first to admit that I haven't thoroughly checked out the 2010 FAQ for one reason or another (mainly because I've got enough to complain about without reading poorly worded "clarifications"). However, a cursory glance at the Blast Marker clarifications show two very clear rulings which specifically address this issue.

The first is in the first paragraph, where it states that a ship that doesn't have a BM in contact but which is in base contact with a ship that does have a touching BM does not itself count as being in contact with a BM.

The second is in the fourth paragraph where it says that when there are multiple ships in base contact under fire the attacking player may place the BM anywhere in contact with the target ship. It also says that to drop shields of contacting ships that the BM has to physically touch them.

These two rulings combined make it very very clear that you do not count as having a BM in contact yourself, even if you placed it on the defender via shooting while your ship was in base contact. The only way you could possibly be in contact with a BM as the attacker in a boarding action is if you happened to land on one that was already there before initiating the boarding action. If so, that's your lookout.

[Plaxor]

Also note that fluff is poor for game mechanics. Especially in the world of 40k, sure a squad of 5 marines should walk through a squad of conscripts, but usually it's the other way around.

But since in 40k you don't want to play with an army of five men, GW made space marines just a little better than guardsmen instead of 1 space marine being able to murder everything forever.

And technically in the fluff anything that a navyman would be equipped with couldn't possibly hurt a marine anyway. You'd need at least a bolter (which a normal human can't fire... outside of those in power armor, I know they started doing it with more recent codexes.) So marines should auto-win, as the five that entered the ship kill everyone on board.

[Atog]

You know, that's seems weird.   I told "hey guys, lets buff sm at naval combat! " You, people, told "no way man, its unfluffy! "
Ok! I said "so lets buff their boarding capabilities!" and you told "no way man, that fluff is sux"


Oh boy! Can anyone please explain how to differ good background from bad background?

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

You know, that's seems weird.   I told "hey guys, lets buff sm at naval combat! " You, people, told "no way man, its unfluffy! "
Ok! I said "so lets buff their boarding capabilities!" and you told "no way man, that fluff is sux"


Oh boy! Can anyone please explain how to differ good background from bad background?

The fluff sucks in the sense that it's unbelievable that 10 men could massacre a lot of men who have weapons of their own. That is different from background fluff where we know SM are good on the ground but not in space. +2 to Boarding Modifiers is already good when you compare it to the normal human faction in 40k which is IN. When you start going up against the races with their bonuses like Orks, Nids and Chaos who are also good at Boarding then don't expect to win easily. Your expectation is flawed in that you believe SM should walk through every race at boarding, even Nids because of one fluff that blue men won against a Hive fleet (again, book biased towards the blue men).

[horizon]

I don't get it... Marines get a pretty high bonus in boarding, more then average. What's to complain about.

[Mazila]

No complains, just after more thinking came up with systematic changes to the current draft that we want:

1. Crippled venerable barge 50%, destroyed 150%
2. Strike cruiser can change t-hawks for 3 frontal bc
3. Terminator Boarding Party 15pts gives +1 boarding (+3 in total) can be put on any capital ship (Orks have that rule actually)
4. Honor Guard 20pts can be put only on Master of the Fleet ship - give additional teleport attack - roll 2d6, pick the one you like (those guys are the elite of the chapter and they are actually even harder than the terminators)

This gives more options for SM, boosts them in boarding for extra points and looks cool.

[lastspartacus]

I think the complaint is that other fleets can do boarding better...and also everything else better.

Its one of the reasons I'm against chaos having any kind of innate boarding bonus just for being all heretic-like.



Something on my mind:  I've never agreed with t-hawks being at all worth splitting your ordnance in half to get.  The fluff answer doesn't even make sense either.  So what if they are bigger, a normal marker represents a whole squadron of AC, surely the equal of one or two t-hawks.
And how the hell do you explain tau mantas?  Twice the size of t-hawks, resilient, and taken in double numbers.  Madness I tell you!

[flybywire-E2C]

Horizon, modefier for BM is checked for both players.

Lunar VS Strike

For lunar Strike is the enemy and for Strike Lunar is!

If lunar has a BM in contact then they both have it. This is the way it works as per current ruling, same way as massed turrets.

In all cases concerning boarding actions (note emphasis), the blast marker affects the defending player. If it affected both ships, there would be no point in the rule, as the negative modifers cancel each other out.

- Nate

[Mazila]

Nids ignore the BM so there is a need for it

[horizon]

Huh? How do you mean. There is no need for it as Nate says (and per Sigoroths FAQ2010 extrapolation).

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Nids ignore the BM so there is a need for it

A race ignoring BMs have nothing to do with it. As long as there is a BM in contact with the defending ship, the attacking ship gets +1.

[Mazila]

Anyway, ignore the BM, i think we had a lot of it in the other topic, how do you find our idea on SM?

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Which idea?

[Mazila]

Which idea?

7th post from top - Idea for SM draft from Russian BFG community:

1. Crippled venerable barge 50%, destroyed 150%
2. Strike cruiser can change t-hawks for 3 frontal bc
3. Terminator Boarding Party 15pts gives +1 boarding (+3 in total) can be put on any capital ship (Orks have that rule actually)
4. Honor Guard 20pts can be put only on Master of the Fleet ship - give additional teleport attack - roll 2d6, pick the one you like (those guys are the elite of the chapter and they are actually even harder than the terminators)