August 04, 2024, 11:16:59 PM

Author Topic: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development  (Read 263393 times)

Offline Mazila

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #615 on: December 13, 2010, 01:06:48 PM »
It's just another mistake made by different game designers. SM use BC for shooting at planetary defences. Why do they call them BOMBARDMENT canons huh? Lance just looks cooler in stupid DOW game and just wrote whatever they wanted. Pure and simple. It has nothing to do with actual SC profile.

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #616 on: December 13, 2010, 02:27:53 PM »
Quote
I'm aware of that.  However, it still follows the lance weapon profile.
That means nothing. There are several things in 40k that "follow the lance profile". Just face it, the lance strike is dead and gone and it's been replaced with a generic orbital bombardment.
-Vaaish

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #617 on: December 13, 2010, 09:31:28 PM »
What they call a lance (surgical strike) in 40k could/would be completely different from what they'd call them in BFG. Don't forget, lance/WB are classes of weaponry, not specific names for weaponry. And if something like a Tau railgun is a WB then I'm sure WBs can be used for precision orbital strikes. Hell, a different ammo round or cohesion focal point or energy input could produce this effect, depending on the weapon.

I imagine WBs acting like a projectile weapon for the most part, where you have to calculate the intersection between the round and the target. A lance on the other hand would be much more like the weaponry in Babylon 5, ie, scything through space.

According to 'current' fluff, a weapon battery fills a volume of space with fire, though aiming is involved.  Older WBs seem to be composed of lasers, while newer are solid projectiles.  Some have increased range due to gravimetric manipulation (grav culverins) or refined propellants (turbo weapons). Plasma weapons are also considered wbs, and would be terminally disrupted by a planets EM field, as a plasma bolt is a electromagnetic package surrounding a chunk of plasma.   Tau may very well be able to use railguns through an atmosphere, as an ion bolt would not penetrate for the same reasons as a plasma round.

Ancient targeting systems fluff has been revised, and, if converted to BFG, would be a left shift rather then the extension to range on most IN ships.

Page 114 of Lure of the Expanse from FFG has a nice illustration of a lance strike on a building by a Firestorm, for those questioning what a lance strike looks like as fire support.

And, much to my irritation, GW has officially condoned FFGs work as the current fluff for our beloved ships, which is why the HA is having such a hard time getting ships changed/approved.
non nobis domine non nobis sed nomine tua da na glorium

Offline Plaxor

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #618 on: December 13, 2010, 10:49:23 PM »
Baron, you're right. The pinpoint attacks from ships shown in 40k are probably lances.

In fact there is a part in epic about a cruiser being able to destroy a titan legion from space, with no argument from the titans.

A lot of fluff is ignored for the sake of gameplay. I mean... the orbital bombardment option for inquisitors probably should be a D weapon that covers the whole battlefield, but that would be boring.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #619 on: December 14, 2010, 02:19:32 AM »

A lot of fluff is ignored for the sake of gameplay.

Excellent, lets settle on suboptimal and limited lance variants, and imposing mean spirited and baseless limitations :)

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #620 on: December 14, 2010, 02:52:45 AM »
"Mean spirited" and "baseless" limitations? Really? I hope you can show proof of "mean spirited" as well as "baseless" in all of the posts so far.

Offline horizon

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #621 on: December 14, 2010, 04:08:18 AM »
Hi BaronI,

the problem with art:
In the Rogue Trader RPG corebook there is a picture (first pic starship section) of a Protector firing guns from its keel Manta Launch bay at another vessel.

Artists .... creative freedom. :)


Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #622 on: December 14, 2010, 04:47:19 AM »
Woot!  Grounds for a non-carrier Protector! :D

Offline horizon

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #623 on: December 14, 2010, 04:57:13 AM »
If you want to create a ship out of a mistake to have a mistaken ship you go kid!

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #624 on: December 14, 2010, 05:36:54 AM »
If you want to create a ship out of a mistake to have a mistaken ship you go kid!

Horizon: you're forgetting that anything and everything that goes into one of those books must be approved by GW.  (and there's lots of text to go along with the lance strikes, as the orbiting firestorm is bombarding the planet the players are on.)

And to give an example of how exacting it is: it took twelve tries before GW approved a battlecry for FFG's in house SM chapter for Deathwatch.  The art and text is similarly scrutinized.  

I say, pity the HA if they have to go through the same crap.


And:btw: that's recycled art from GW, rather then FFG's new stuff.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 05:40:01 AM by BaronIveagh »
non nobis domine non nobis sed nomine tua da na glorium

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #625 on: December 14, 2010, 07:33:40 AM »
It is just as plausible for SMs to have Eldar movement as it is for them to have a lance boat. I have no fuckin idea why we're arguing this. Show me one reason to give SMs a lance. What's that? You can't? Oh, I wonder why that is. Oh wait, I know, it's because there is no fuckin reason. "I want a lance! I'm a SM fanboy! SMs need everything!" Fuck off.

Offline horizon

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #626 on: December 14, 2010, 07:35:50 AM »
And:btw: that's recycled art from GW, rather then FFG's new stuff.
Then GW are ****.
sjeez,
I made one small email to FW and got an answer to what what is. And they cannot get it straight in-house?
Losers. :)

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #627 on: December 14, 2010, 09:53:34 AM »
Its like theres a different Sigoroth on this thread.  Sig, I for one have listed a few reasons, have you been reading the posts?

Offline horizon

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #628 on: December 14, 2010, 12:01:04 PM »
Hi LS,

same Sigoroth, he just gets very annoyed when bricks don't work anymore. I'm the same, I just don't use the same vocabulair.

Also, I'm with Sigoroth, apart of mistakes (eg BL) I have seen no reason for Marines to have lances on Strike Cruisers.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development
« Reply #629 on: December 14, 2010, 05:47:04 PM »
Ok, you see no reason.  Others of us see reason that there would be lances in small amounts in some fleets, for various reasons.
So why not let those some of us be happy, make the tradeout suboptimal and limited, and no need for a points increase?
You will likely never even see it on the tabletop.