Space Marines - Redesign/Rules Development

[Atog]

I don't like that words playing.  
 

I don't ask to explain me boarding rules, that I know pretty well.
I ask to write down boarding action of ONE sm strike  cruiser against ONE 8/2 cruiser.  

But what I get? Some speculation about how cool to board  crippled enemy ship with 2 fresh cruiser?  

One strike against one 8/2 cruser!

My BV is 6  enemy is 10  
So he takes+1 for outnumbering
I take +2 for being sm

It's equal of I have +1 and my opponetn have no bonuses.
As I said before.
Is it good and fluffy? No.  Because SM ARE   very strong at close quater battles. And according to background  their chance to defeat human crew  of an ordinary vessel is much more than we have in BFG.  

And when we fights against more aggressive enemy, such orks or chaos, our chases to win is dropped to ground. Against any fluff again!  


PS
2d'Artagnan
I wonder why You don't  tell me how cool to board firestorm with fully loaded BB. It  must be so AWESOM  =\
  

[horizon]

Hi Atog,
not so itchy

Marines:
fluffwise a Strike Cruiser only has 10 (ten) Space Marines aboard to command the vessel. The rest is servitors & chapter serves.

10 Space Marines won't make a fluff difference vs a kroozer filled with loonatic Orks.

[Atog]

My idea was to point that sm not excel at boarding as they must be.

"10 Space Marines won't make a fluff difference vs a kroozer filled with loonatic Orks."

Sorry but You wrong. There is tons of fluff where small sm party takes from one ship to whole planet.

[horizon]

I pointed out all is fine. 10 Space Marines and a +2 bonus? Seems excelling enough to me.

Marines are not dumb enough to fill every cruiser with 100's of Marines. One death ship would result in one death company... precious marine geneseed.

[RCgothic]

Boarding happens like this:

1. Each player will roll a D6.
2. To the D6, you add modifiers from the table in the main rulebook. In this case SM gets +2 to the die roll already. If the target ship has BM, add another +1. If the target ship is on Special Orders, add another +1. If the target ship is crippled, add another +2. So that's potentially D6+3 to D6+6 to your die roll.
3. Now Boarding Value works like this: compare the remaining hit points of each ship involved in the boarding action. BV for an undamaged SC would be 6. An undamaged target cruiser with 8 hp and 2 turrets would have a Boarding Value of 10. So 6 vs 10. Checking the Boarding Modifier Table, this means the target cruiser has a BV higher than the SC. So the target cruiser's owning player gets a +1 to his D6 roll.

Note that some races have a rule which doubles their BV. Assuming this is the case, the target cruiser would then have a BV of 20 which under the Boarding Modifier Table means the ship has a BV 3x as much as the SC and so will get a +3 modifier. So be careful which race you board against. Nids are nasty this way.

So assuming still full HP SC vs still full HP normal cruiser without race modifiers with 8 hits and 2 turrets, it would be D6+2 vs D6+1.
If target cruiser has BM, quite likely, it becomes D6+3 vs D6+1.
If target cruiser is on Special Orders like BFI, it becomes D6+4 vs D6+1.
If target cruiser is crippled, it becomes D6+7 vs D6+0 (since the SC would now have more HP than the target cruiser).

If target cruiser is tag teamed by 2 SCs, the SCs would now have a higher BV (12 vs 10 assuming undamaged). So it now rolls D6+2 (for being SM)+1 for having higher Boarding Value vs D6.
If target cruiser tag teamed has BM on it, it becomed D6+4 vs D6.
And so on.

The difference bet the D6 rolls would be the damage inflicted on the loser. Then there's also the crit rolls which improves the higher the difference.

Nasty, no?

Edited some errors.

Cookie for you. Excellent explanation. Also shows that an undamaged SC is perfectly capable of taking on an undamaged CA and winning, possibly by quite a bit! Nasty indeed.

Although SC are by definition the interstellar transport of one battle company, 110 Marines at least. (Battle barges 3 Companies). In reality the bording strength of the strike cruiser would depend on whether the company had deployed yet.

[Mazila]

10 marines is a case for SMSC as part of Imperial Navy. A pure SM fleet would have those 100 marines for sure. If there is a pure SM fleet out there then they are deffinately on a conquest.

Also the thing with BM is not clear: Every player makes that BM check. so this means that if BM's count as being all around then both ships have it anyway. Enemy ship = they are enemies to each other!

BTW another question appeared: in case of a drawn combat which ship counts its turrets? Do they take turns or ignore it?

[horizon]

Crew on an Imperial cruiser is above 60000.

100 vs 60000
1 vs 60
Given Marines 1 on 100, the +2 is again validated.

[Atog]

it's look like you are joking or don't read any background at all.

SM are masters of a surgical strikes. They will  launch several small teams that will disable  engines, power sources, will kill leading officers on a bridge or will place bomb  at main engines that will destroy most part of a ship.

There is no point to kill all of 6000  enemy personnel including  325 janitors ,212 quartermasters , 115 chiefs, 87 atmospheric engineers, and the shipborne cat Thadeus.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

I don't like that words playing.  
 

I don't ask to explain me boarding rules, that I know pretty well.
I ask to write down boarding action of ONE sm strike  cruiser against ONE 8/2 cruiser.  

But what I get? Some speculation about how cool to board  crippled enemy ship with 2 fresh cruiser?  

I gave you quite more than that. If you don't want to make use of what you can use to improve the odds then I can't help you anymore.

One strike against one 8/2 cruser!

My BV is 6  enemy is 10  
So he takes+1 for outnumbering
I take +2 for being sm

It's equal of I have +1 and my opponetn have no bonuses.
As I said before.
Is it good and fluffy? No.  Because SM ARE   very strong at close quater battles. And according to background  their chance to defeat human crew  of an ordinary vessel is much more than we have in BFG.  

And the modifiers I mentioned should be more than enough to help you take said enemy cruiser down. If you don't take advantage of them and just want to rely on the SM bonus then you will not be able to win easily unless the opponent rolls horribly on the D6.

And when we fights against more aggressive enemy, such orks or chaos, our chases to win is dropped to ground. Against any fluff again!  

It's Orks. You think SM can easily take out masses of Orks? Or even a regular Chaos ship mutated by the dark powers, much less Chaos SM ship? C'mon man. BFG is NOT 40k where SM are ridiculously overpowered in fluff and rules.

PS
2d'Artagnan
I wonder why You don't  tell me how cool to board firestorm with fully loaded BB. It  must be so AWESOM  =\

Why would you waste a BB in boarding a firestorm when you can just waste it with your THs? Use your BB to board said enemy 8/2 cruiser and see what the cruiser can do. In other words, be realistic in how you apply the rules.

Even in real life, one on one battles rarely happen on an equal basis. One side will strive as much as possible to make use of his advantage to turn the battle to his advantage. Bismarck was sunk in a battle with 2 battleships. Kirishima vs Washington might sound fair until you realize the latter had advantage in radar and the former was more a battlecruiser than a battleship. Scharnhorst was sunk by the Duke of York supported by cruisers. Americans made use of breaking the Japanese code and used that advantage to take out the Japanese carriers. Yamato was sunk by multitude of aircraft, torpedoing and bombing her to pieces. You cannot assume that one SC can take out a regular cruiser easily.

[horizon]

Mazilla.

it's look like you are trolling or joking or don't read any background at all.

Never ever accuse me of trolling. :/

IN cruiser crew = +60000
Sixty Thousand.

Ofcourse it is surgical strikes when doing Teleport/Hit&Run Attacks.

Boarding is something entirely different.

[Atog]

"And the modifiers I mentioned should be more than enough to help you take said enemy cruiser down. If you don't take advantage of them and just want to rely on the SM bonus then you will not be able wo win easily unless the opponent rolls horribly on the D6."

I'm playing since  2002 and i never gets such Ideal conditions that you described.

In most cases  both sides's bonuses are even, because of special orders, ship damages and blast barkers.  

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

it's look like you are trolling or joking or don't read any background at all.

SM are masters of a surgical strikes. They will  launch several small teams that will disable  engines, power sources, will kill leading officers on a bridge or will place bomb  at main engines that will destroy most part of a ship.

There is no point to kill all of 6000  enemy personnel including  325 janitors ,212 quartermasters , 87 atmospheric engineers, and shipborne cat Thadeus.

Sure and these SM are so good that they automatically reach the places they need to disable the engines, power sources and all the other stuff you mentioned. You do realize the SM still has to get to those places right? There is no point in killing all those men, sure. But when 6000 weapons are trained on your 10 SM the odds are high the SM are going to get their heads handed to them.

Stop applying extremely biased SM W:40k craziness to BFG.

[horizon]

Why are both sides even? The Strike Cruiser won't have a blastmarker and does not need to be on special orders.


crew sizes:

Rogue Trader RPG (Fantasy Flight Games), page 196:

Lunar class cruiser. 5 Kms long. 0,8 km abeam at fins, approx.
Mass 28 megatons. Crew: 95 000.

Dauntless Light Cruiser: 4,5 Kms long. 0,5 Km abeam at fins, approx.
Mass: 20 megatons. Crew: 65 000.

Official, sanctioned, approved made in collaboration with and by Games Workshop.

[Atog]

2 d'Artagnan
I don't told a word about 40 game. I told only about books that produce Black Library and about some stories printed in codicies!

And You know, BFG is ABOUT SPACECOMBAT OF 40 000 millennium. So i don't understand why you os eager to separate it from WH 40k !

2 Horizon
Because my enemy want let me to bring fresh SC to combat.
 

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

"And the modifiers I mentioned should be more than enough to help you take said enemy cruiser down. If you don't take advantage of them and just want to rely on the SM bonus then you will not be able wo win easily unless the opponent rolls horribly on the D6."

I'm playing since  2002 and i never gets such Ideal conditions that you described.

In most cases  both sides's bonuses are even, because of special orders, ship damages and blast barkers.  

You don't get BMs on the enemy? The enemy is not on Special Orders? Maybe you're just not finding the right situation.