If you could make an Imperial ship legal, which one(s) would it be?

[BaronIveagh]

Why on and how where you robbed in the bfg tournament?
Did you throw a ship of the table?

Well...a ship *did* leave the table, but probably not how you're thinking...

Bakka was permitted 'with opponent consent'.  Two of them had consented without a judge present, and then said they never consented, after loosing.  Normally this wouldn't have flown, but the judge they had disqualify me was one of the players brother in law, which I didn't know at the time.  Mind you, my... rather spur of the moment response to this was probably also unsportsmanlike.  I suppose it didn't help that one of them had spent most of the first two turns telling me what a stupid player I was to play such a shitty list, then did this when he lost.

BTW: a well pinned Emp can give you two good swings to the head before breaking.  So, mini makers, always pin your battleships rather then use greenstuff and gorilla glue.  You never know when you'll need the extra strength. 

massing turrets still defaults to the profile when calculating bomber attacks. FDT's are special in that they 'move' a given turret to a ship w/in 15cm thus fdts do reduce bomber attacks.

i think this is how it goes down for bakka:
bombers = dandruff.
aboats in large waves (ie nids) cause a serious problem.
lots of torps causes issues as well.
if bakka wants to get torps off... they'd better focus on bringing as many salvos as possible, at least 1 full squadron of cobras/vipers in a 1500, probably 2.

Hmm... the aboat wave didn't occur to me.  I was thinking more about a Tau Explorer based fleet hitting it with 45 lbs worth of fighters and bombers (which would equal some serious dandruff) 

[Zelnik]

It really is starting to seem like we are going nowhere fast with this.

Is there anything we can -agree- on?

Aside from scrapping the list and starting over.

[Plaxor]

It really is starting to seem like we are going nowhere fast with this.

Is there anything we can -agree- on?

Aside from scrapping the list and starting over.

Yes. That is agreeable.

[Zelnik]

...sooo the only thing we can come to an agreement on is that we do -not- like this list.  Should we work on a different sector instead?

[Valhallan]

zel. yes.

however. bakka is happening/happened. nate said he's done with discussion and will probably just read what we have to say...or not...
this whole bakkan debacle is well... a 'for kicks' list. i don't think of it as serious, but fun to play with some friends. no more, no less. I do believe (as above) that we as a community should just work on own versions of some other sector... or just another navy in general.

but yes.... we aren't going anywhere... so i guess... "if you were to make an imperial ship legal, which one(s) would it be?"

[Plaxor]

Vote Count.... (basically) Black means yes, orange means apathetic/other option, red means no. Tried to keep as good of track as I could, sorry if I screwed something up. Teal means 'with vengeance'.

Delete FDTs [Vaaish, Plaxor, Sigoroth, RCgothic valhallan
Vanquisher 300 (or less) pts [RCgothic, Plaxor, Sigoroth, Eldanesh
Victory 330 pts: [RCgothic, Plaxor, Vaaish, Eldanesh Valhallan
Delete Jovian: [Admiral D, Horizon, Valhallan, Zelnik, lastspartacus, Plaxor, Sigoroth, BaronI]
Add Dominion: [Plaxor, Horizon, Valhallan, RCgothic, Sigoroth, Zelnik]
Vanquisher 20cm speed: [Valhallan, Plaxor, RCgothic]
+1 Turrets (possible increased cost): [Sigoroth, Plaxor, Rcgothic, Valhallan, Zelnik]

Delete Victory: [Plaxor, Zelnik]
Vanquisher somewhere else: [Zelnik... Plaxor]
Delete Mercury: [Zelnik, Plaxor]

Add Ignus [Plaxor]

Ham Sandwich [Plaxor, Sigoroth, Horizon, Zelnik]

[Plaxor]

...sooo the only thing we can come to an agreement on is that we do -not- like this list.  Should we work on a different sector instead?

Lol yes. BaronI is the only one who really solidly likes it. I kinda like it because it would allow some official way to play my 'Tartanus fleet' which is quite similar to this one.

Tell me about Tartanus.

[Zelnik]

Allow me to clarify my position on your little chart, Plaxor.

Vanquisher: should not be in the list in the first place
Victory: should not exist period.
Delete Jovian: With a vengeance
Torps on Mercury: The ship should not exist. If it was going to be shoehorned, it should never have a nova cannon
add dominion: whut?
+1 turret: absolutely not. That's another admech benefit, and giving it away willy-nilly would be a fantastic way to reduce the desire to play it.

SO aside from the insane babbling of Baron I,  and the pseudo insane babbling of you plaxor ... Everyone here wants to create something else.


DID YOU HEAR THAT, NATE??

[Valhallan]

apathy...hehe

clarifying my vote. I'm fine with the vicky prolly will never use one though i did magnetize my BB just in case . vanquisher at 300 is my vote.

delete jovian add dominion.

complete apathy on anything FDT/extra turret related as long as you can't reserve from the list [ie bakka isolation]. (this will probably change as i've mentioned before, but unless someone wants to do my partial dif eq test for me its gonna take a while).

and to answer my own previous question: what imp ships to be made legal? PLAX'S IMP SHIPS DOC! (c'mon 210 dictator!) as well as the Revelation (or i think the admiral called it the dragon on the port) the gothic CB.

[Plaxor]

All right Zelnik, but one question.... what color is 'with a vengeance'?

I get the feeling it's teal, as that is what Sig always uses. Everything he says is 'with vengeance'.

Also I agree with Valhallan. My ship doc is the best.

210 pt dictators and etc won't happen. Nate has already declared that they despise power creep, and think that making every bad ship better would ultimately end this way.

Sig came with his rebuttal, which basically said that you either make the good ships worse, or the bad ships better.

There are few ships which are honestly OP, most are just 'good'. The two considered OP were the Devestation and Hero. The ones considered fine were in the majority, then every other was brought in line with those. It's a lot easier to make the bad things better than the good things worse, as most people can agree on this system.

In fact it is what causes GW good sales when they release a new codex.

[Plaxor]

Oh and as a thought, I'm rather surprised that the HA don't adopt this philosophy. So long as all the ships are kept balanced, and are reviewed by a lot of people, then you will increase your sales significantly, while people buy models that they always considered useless.

That is ultimately what we're looking for, to increase GWs sales to that they'll get keen to bfg and update rules/add new models.

[Zelnik]

Possibly because there are other motives at play here.  Even if they are respected members of the community, they are still human.  This means they have their own axes to grind.

I expect that this has a lot to do with "I really want this, and so do my friends.  I have the power, I am doing it". 

[Plaxor]

Possibly because there are other motives at play here.  Even if they are respected members of the community, they are still human.  This means they have their own axes to grind.

I expect that this has a lot to do with "I really want this, and so do my friends.  I have the power, I am doing it". 

I do think that this does exist somewhat in the HA's mind. I'm certain that Nate owns several of these 'types' of vessels. Which is why there is such a limitation in changing things. Honestly we could delete half the fluff behind this bakka list, and no one would notice. Change it to things that make sense.

[Zelnik]

We could probably delete "bakka" and replace it with "Ham sandwich". 

Again, the utter unrelenting nature of his responses clearly suggests this is a pet project for at least ONE of the HA. I know this from experience in regards to the Diasporex Nomads list.

The only issue with such an unrelenting attitude is that this fleet really has no place, nor is there a demand for it! We could be spending our time far more constructively by trying to produce a hero ship for the Dark Eldar or making nids more appealing to new players.

[lastspartacus]

Easy answer.  Delete instinctive behavior clutter.  Ships outside synapse range cant attempt RO.