If you could make an Imperial ship legal, which one(s) would it be?

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Now that the Voss is for the most part sorted, here's a new argument: should the Vengeance GC variants (both Chaos and Imps) get 6 prow torps as an option?

- Nate

Better if they get them as standard and not as an option.

[horizon]

I'm more with Vaaish.

Not standard but an option.

About the Vengeance prow torpedo idea that is.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

I just checked the math now using Smotherman. I am getting the Vengeance at 243, the Exorcist is at 211, the Avenger at 133, Executor at 225 and the Retaliator at 239. Now granted the Smotherman Formula is just a guide but there is a huge discrepancy with the Avenger.

Edit: Sorry redid the math.

I think there should be some rebalancing done with the Vengeance and their variants' costing. The Repulsive's cost comes out quite spot on.

[Sigoroth]

Voss cruisers don't have the engine power of a Dauntless. if you beef up the prow, the extra armor makes it clumsier to turn. That's why it's an option.

What? Since when don't they have the engine power of the Dauntless? Because they've only got 20cm speed? This was an incongruity that the addition of the 6+ prow rationalised. To further penalise the ship again is just silly.

Here are the issues at play:

• Balance issues - Voss CLs are currently too weak.
• Role issues - Voss broadside focus and slow speed suggest a line role: a role for which it does not have the requisite survivability.
• Speed issues - the Voss CLs are slow, with no rationale to explain it.
• Fluff issues - why did the IN make them? What is the point of a miniature line cruiser?

For the above 4 issues there is one very simple fix. Give them 6+ prows. No other change. This fixes the balance issue, allows them to function in the line, explains why they're slower than a Dauntless (extra mass of the armour) and also explains why they were made. That is, with their extra manoeuvrability they can cover holes in the line.

Really simple small change fixes all their problems. I don't get why we're even considering making it an either/or between the armour and turn rate. They're already being penalised by virtue of the 20cm speed (and slower AAF) compared to their nearest analogue, the Dauntless. Yes, they're heavier than a Dauntless, due to the armour, but they're also lighter than a full cruiser too. Why can't their movement stats sit in between the two?

To then further complicate the issue by adding extra torps to balance the loss of the turn rate seems silly. I've always seen the torps as an incidental weapon, to be reloaded when convenient and useful to clear enemy ordnance, take potshots at enemy escorts or bolster the strength of any other cruisers torps if in squadron. Its main weaponry has always been its broadsides.

Of the 4 afore mentioned issues the "armour for manoeuvrability option + extra torps" proposal only addresses the first.

[horizon]

Sig, what about the Defiant?

[Sigoroth]

Sig, what about the Defiant?

Well I think that it's fairly clear that there are some problems with the Defiant that are a good deal harder to fix. To me a good fix would be to highlight its entry in Armada and press delete. Either way, before tackling any fixes to this ship we'd have to know what the profile of the Endeavour/Endurance would be.

[lastspartacus]

I think 'auto pass RO' would go a long way in helping the Defiant, and it makes perfect fluff sense, SO MUCH ROOM! :p

I'd just like to see a clear answer to the suggestions/arguments that were brought up in the last 5 or so posts, as that about sums up the concerns.

[RCgothic]

Defiant definitely needs help, but I can see the point in waiting to see what happens with the other too first - Defiant DEFINITELY needs more work than the other two.

#1. Remove the link between Defiant/Endurance and Endeavour - Point restrict instead.

Such an important change, I'm going to keep on stating it.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Just in case the HA is thinking about adding a Gothic Battlecruiser, here's one I made before with accompanying fluff:

Conqueror class battlecruiser………………………………………………220 pts.

Type/Hits: Cruiser/8
Speed: 20 cm
Turn: 45'
Shields: 2
Turrets: 2
Armor: 6+/5+

Armament:         FP/Str      Range      Fire Arc
Dorsal Lance Battery      2      60 cm      L/F/R
Port Lance Battery      4      30 cm      Left
Starboard Lance Battery   4      30 cm      Right
Prow Torpedoes      6      30 cm      Front
Prow Power Ram      1      -      Front

Famous Ships:

Intercessor’s Faith   Judicious


History:

The Conqueror class battlecruiser was the outcome of the rumors of the impending demise of the Gothic class cruiser. The Gothics had sadly proven ineffective against its opponents, especially the Eldar, thus circulation of news that the entire class was about to be decommissioned. They had actually fallen in priority when it came to repairs and/or recommissionings. One captain, however, still believed in the Gothics and actually proposed to upgrade them instead to battlecruiser status like what the Armageddons are to the Lunars. Captain Milech Roderiguez managed to get permission to upgrade his cruiser, the Sachsenwald, to prove that there is still a place for the all lance warship in the Emperor’s fleet. After three years of modifications, delays and sabotage and  despite the misgivings of the Adeptus Mechanicus because of their experience with the Acheron, the lead ship in a new class of battlecruiser emerged. The Intercessor’s Faith entered the Imperial roster and began her trials. Much to the disappointment of Captain Roderiguez, the conversion was not a total success. While the dorsal lances performed to specification, the port and starboard lances’ range was not capable of being extended. This was due to the enormous power required by lances to function. Even though it was not a total success, Captain Roderiguez was satisfied that with the modifications, the life of the fated Gothics could still be extended further.

[lastspartacus]

Pricey.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Yep. It is lance heavy. Ideally should only be 200. But then, the Dictator would take a hit if I kept the price at 200.

[Eudaimon]

I would like to play a cruiser with launch bays and lances. Would it break IN concept?
Maybe it'll remain only a desire, but I meant something like a 2 launch bays and 2 lances (30 cm) per broadside.
There would be the problem of the prow weapon ("no torpedoes on a ship with launch bays!"), maybe we can place a Nova Cannon (even if I don't like them, but IN in this question doesn't offer choice)


Type/Hits: Cruiser/8
Speed: 20 cm
Turn: 45'
Shields: 2
Turrets: 2
Armor: 6+/5+


Armament:                    FP/Str      Range        Fire Arc
Port Lance Battery           2           30 cm         Left
Starboard Lance Battery    2           30 cm        Right
Port Launch Bay               2                           Left
Starboard Launch Bay       2                            Right
Prow Nova Cannon           1         30-150 cm     Front


230 point for not to enter in competition with the Dictator (not too much hovever).
Change the point as you want.

I forgot the name: Gaia Class   
Pure support and in conflict with every order you can give to her   

[horizon]

Concept has been done many times. Jovian iirc, Dominion in Book of Nemesis iirc.

[lastspartacus]

I wonder if the HA ever plans to address its logic in limiting the Voss patterns to a 45* if 6+ prow armor

[flybywire-E2C]

Hi all! The following two items were added to the Battlefleet Gothic Repository:

1.      Eldar Domains and Refits (20101122).pdf

All I did here is correct some formatting and spelling errors, and I made a minor tweak to the wording of the Repulsor Field rules. It’s actually a major tweak in that it’s not called that anymore, but in game-rule terms the adjustment is actually very small. All I did was take two pre-existing Eldar refits and incorporate it into the Haven to replace the Repulsor Field so that it uses pre-existing mechanics instead of something completely new and totally unique to just this model. The critical chart also reflects this change.


2.     Inquisition DRAFT v1.0.pdf

This is a completely new file, yet something else to incorporate the last missing component to an Imperial force in BFG. There’s two new ships: the Inquisition Blackship and an Inquisitorial cruiser. I expect there will be some surprises here, and this is intentional. I am really surprised how often Blackships are misrepresented from what they actually represent in the WH40k storyline, but this is clarified in this document, the Grey Knights are fleshed out a bit and a LOT of background has been added concerning the Inquisition as a whole.


Files in the repository can be seen and downloaded from here:
http://tinyurl.com/23nul8q 

Smile, game on and enjoy!

-   Nate