If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?

[flybywire-E2C]

Hi all! BIG changes here! I'll re-post this in all the pertinent places.

First of all, the FAQ/Errata is DONE!!! A LOT of work went into this, an dit will remain in draft form for another week jusnt in case there's a few more kinks to work out that all of us missed, but this is essentially what the FAQ will look like. Sorry it took so long to get right, and sorry we pushed it so close to 2011!! Barring any unforeseen problems, we should be able to stamp this FINAL sometime around December 27th. SPECIAL THANKS to Horizon and Masque- I've decided to give them every dime I make from this effort!   

Rogue Traders DRAFT v3.5: Like the FAQ, the Rogue Traders saw a lot of back and forth so the version number is quite different. VERY SPECIAL THANKS to Sam Shepherd, the creative design lead from Fantasy Flight Games that took the time to square our Rogue Traders with their Rogue Traders! How cool is that?     Now we just have to keep tweaking it until it's right.

Powers of Chaos DRAFT v2.8: A few changes and tweaks here, specifically to the Hecate, Inferno and fleet lists. It's still in work, but we're getting very close to what the final product will look like. Chaos is already a pretty solid fleet so most of the changes here were to correct balancing issues as opposed to anything else.

Inquisition DRAFT v1.4: A few formatting changes and minor tweaks, but nothing really different here- it's still in work.

Well, that's it! The link to all the files is in my signature. I'll be leaving town for a week and will try to stay in touch. Keep your smiles on, game on and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

- Nate

[Plaxor]

The City of Light fluff should be changed. Shouldn't be the flagship of the Thousand Sons, instead it should be Arhiman's flagship.

The Only Thousand Sons to ever leave the EoT is the group that was banished by Magnus (everyone who listened to Arhiman) so it is a better fit for any currently active ship.

[lastspartacus]

What, the others have never left the Eye?  That fluff where they attack the Space Wolves was Ahriman's group?

[lastspartacus]

So the Slaaneshy upgrades are kosher with everyone? 

[Sigoroth]

So the Slaaneshy upgrades are kosher with everyone? 

I don't really know. I can't be arsed reading it. I've given up on this pdf, since all the BBs are rubbish.

[Zhukov]

Bit of an editing note... In the Khorne fleet list, the Daemonship section (the points costs) and the Berzerker Tide (if less than 20cm FROM their target) is a bit messed up.

So the Slaaneshy upgrades are kosher with everyone?  

Well let's compare them to the others:

Tzeentch
25 pts, up to two vessels, may do D6 hits without shields within 15cm in end phase once per battle.
25 pts, ship with Lord, gets a free passed command check or Ld test.

Nurgle
10 pts, any capital ship, enemies don't receive 15cm WB range modifier.
10 pts, up to two capital ships, automatically cause a Fire Critical in boarding actions.

Khorne
Any ship with Mark of Khorne, cause D3 extra crits in boarding but may not take any SO's in the next turn. Carriers with this may launch D3 extra Attack Craft of any type if less than 20cm from target but must Reload Ordnance and may not launch in the next turn.

Slaanesh
20 pts, mark of slaanesh, enemy ships suffer right column shift on gunnery table.
20 pts, two capital ships with mark of slaanesh, enemy ships within 15cm must pass Ld check or they cannot shoot or launch ordnance.

I say it's fairly balanced points wise. They are all pretty powerful abilities. I would say Khorne's is lacking the most. But then again, it's free! Let's not forget the four fleets have different costs for Deamonships to consider as well.

-Zhukov

[lastspartacus]

The main problem being its not really 20 points for Siren's Summons.  Its 45 points for all ships within 15cm testing at -2 LD if they can shoot or launch ordnance.  Holy Shit.  A slaughter AAF's right into your battleline, and you ships have to test on averages of LD5 or 6 if they can use any weapons.  Holy Cow

[Zhukov]

Well a modified Ld roll. So it's an average of 6 or 7 cause of the +1 for enemy on Special Orders. But I see your point. Let me ask you though, do you like the Tzeentch Warp Beast ability for 25 pts?

-Zhukov

[lastspartacus]

The once a game one?  Seems ok, if the enemy ship has to be the one doing the moving.

And if you didn't do special orders it would be a -2 to LD.  Its such a killer advantage its probably worth not doing.  You move within 15cm, fire at close range, which does lots of damage.  Blast markers.  -3 Leadership to test to even get to retaliate.

[lastspartacus]

@Nate:  
Any thought on making the character VBB's more varied?  Palace of Light for instance would make a great grand cruiser, or Wage of Sin.
I'd love to see some character VBB's that aren't all around the same old 2 classes of battleship.

Can character ships take upgrades, such as Wage of Sin taking Siren's Summons?

The khorne upgrade isnt clear, nor is it clear how and how many can get it.

The Veil of Lust seems 5 points or so undercosted, but its not terribly broken.

Siren's Summons I feel needs a complete rework.  Some other effect perhaps.
Oh, how about this:

Vivid sounds and images of unspeakably dark
pleasures permeate the hulls of enemy vessels and
cause entire crews to work feverishly to stay close to the source of delights.
Up to two capital ships with the Mark of Slaanesh
may have the Siren‟s Summon for +15 points per
vessel. At the start of the opponent's turn, enemy ships
within 15cm of a vessel with Siren‟s Summon must test
against their modified leadership. If it fails, it must do everything in its power to not end its movement
further away from the effecting ship, including attempting special orders.

Ark of Pestilence should be either 5 points or cause 2 auto fire criticals.  Preferably the latter, as that actually makes it scarier to be boarded by, as you are much less likely to repair.  5 points works fine though.

As nasty as Warp Beasts is, something more universal would likely be more fun.  What about a version that simply causes an effect similar to a 15cm solar pulse:  At the end of each movement phase, enemy ships within 15cm suffer a hit against their weakest armor, ignoring shields.  Or friendlies and enemies, would make it more interesting

[Xyon]

Escort, 1 hit, 1 shield, 1 turret, 5+ armor, 30cm, 90 degrees
Heavy weapon battery,  strength 3, 30cm, LFR
points to be determined.


Cruiser, 8 hits,  2 shields, 2 turrets, 5+ armor, 20cm, 45 degrees
Dorsal torpedo,  4 strength, 30 cm LFR
Prow heavy torpedo, 6 strength, 30 cm, F
Port weapon battery, 6 strength, 45 cm, LF
Starboard weapon battery, 6 strength, 45 cm, FR

[Zelnik]

these really are the centers of their respective fleets, I don't see grand cruisers really suiting any of the gods as their chariots in the real world.

[Plaxor]

Nate, I have an idea to help BFG better resemble the 40k races.

There is a Daemon army now in 40k but not really any fleet to represent it. I was wondering if you could write up a fleet list that only allowed daemonships. The feel would probably be similar to the Admech list.

Anyways, just a thought!

[Zelnik]

You can do a demonship list... it's just massively expensive and not very viable at the moment.  and you will always have one little ship sitting out there waiting to get smashed

[lastspartacus]

Thats interesting.  But I wonder if the core demonship rules need tweaking first.  Some seem to think them OP