If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?

[Sigoroth]

So many carriers, why didn't any 1 make a pure gunboat BB variant:

Desolator hull with 3 sets of broadside WB's like on cargane and lance turrets on top hardpoints:

Port WB 12x60cm
Starboard WB 12x60cm
Dorsal WB 6x60cm
Prow torpedoes - 9

Would make a nice model

I assume it would keep the rest of the Desolator profile. What would you cost it at? 280 pts?

[Mazila]

According to smotherman formula its 300pts and I agree with it. Basically you just changed 4 x 60 lances for 12 x 60 wb

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

301.5 points. Probably need to tack on points to 305. That much WBs make it nastier than the Desolator in ranges of 30 cm and below.

[lastspartacus]

Still not a complete gunship.  Not happy with the other profile?

str12 60cm broadsides
str2 or str3 60cm dorsal lances
str6 60cm l/r/f prow batteries

[Sigoroth]

30cm range lances are worth 3 times their weight in WBs. WBs are affected by range, lances are not. Therefore long range lances are worth more than the 1:3 ratio. At 300 pts there's no point in taking this ship over a Desolator.

[Sigoroth]

Still not a complete gunship.  Not happy with the other profile?

str12 60cm broadsides
str2 or str3 60cm dorsal lances
str6 60cm l/r/f prow batteries

This still isn't a gunship as far as I'm concerned.

4WB@60cmL+R - broadside
6WB@45cmL+R - broadside
2L@45cmL+R - broadside
6WB@60cmLFR - prow
3L@60cmLFR - dorsal

20cm speed

Now that's a gunship. This is a Carnage BB with dorsal and broadside lances added.

Call it a Violator class and whack a 330 pt price tag on it.

[lastspartacus]

Str18 battery and 2-3 lances at 60cm on a broadside isnt a gunship?

[Mazila]

Desolator has prow torpedoes and dorsal str 6 WB. No place to mount lances unfortunately, although a broadside WB could get an increase to 16 on it's own and 2 dorsal lances added. But this just looks so much like a retribution

[Sigoroth]

Str18 battery and 2-3 lances at 60cm on a broadside isnt a gunship?

No.

Desolator has prow torpedoes and dorsal str 6 WB. No place to mount lances unfortunately, although a broadside WB could get an increase to 16 on it's own and 2 dorsal lances added. But this just looks so much like a retribution

What?

[Mazila]

just pointing out to lastspartacus that desolator already has a prow weapon slot taken by torps and dorsal slot taken by L/f/r WB

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Not sure but lastspartacus was referring to my Desperation design. Has FP12@60cm WB broadsides, Str 3@60cm dorsal lances and FP6@60cm prow WBs instead of torps and also has 25 cm speed. That's priced at 320.

[lastspartacus]

Except I use it with 2 lances at 300.  Feels more right to me, but thats just preference

[Sigoroth]

just pointing out to lastspartacus that desolator already has a prow weapon slot taken by torps and dorsal slot taken by L/f/r WB

OK, but why were you pointing this out? Obviously in his version the dorsal WBs are replaced by lances and the prow torps are replaced by WBs. What does the Desolators fit have to do with this?

[Sigoroth]

Not sure but lastspartacus was referring to my Desperation design. Has FP12@60cm WB broadsides, Str 3@60cm dorsal lances and FP6@60cm prow WBs instead of torps and also has 25 cm speed. That's priced at 320.

I agree with LS here, the dorsal lances should be reduced. Mind you, this is only because the ship retains 60cm range all round and keeps the 25cm speed. I am not inclined to this sort of reduction otherwise, but here I see a good reason for it. If only because the extra speed of the Desolator is the only way that I can justify its weak dorsal strength in the first place. If the Desperation can maintain that speed and have a decent dorsal armament then why can't the Desolator? After all, it has less direct fire weaponry to power overall, given its prow armament is torpedoes.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Fluffwise, the design came after the Desolator. So one could say it was the pinnacle of the all gun battleship design (then anyway) before the discovery of the taint in the design and the switchover to the Retribution design happened. Could go lower to Str 2 but I like Str 3 as this was the precursor to the Retribution. Was thinking the speed loss came more from the addition of the 6+ prow.