If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?

[Mazila]

Yeah ignore the name it probably came out of my subcountious.

Look just  at the profile - I was thinking of a mid range line cruiser which can be built from extra spue parts that all of us have.

Sig - you are getting personal which is not productive. And you are forgetting the increased point cost compared to slaughterer and weaker shield, range and hull compared to vengeance.

[horizon]

Sig - you are getting personal which is not productive.

Jumping up here. Sig may be pretty vocal but in No Friggin Way he has gotten personal in that post.

[Sigoroth]

Sig - you are getting personal which is not productive. And you are forgetting the increased point cost compared to slaughterer and weaker shield, range and hull compared to vengeance.

What? Where? How? I thought I was simply stating that I was confused by your post. I didn't know if you were trying to refer to a known ship since the name and gun stats were so similar to what's already been before and you said you were writing from memory. This possibility confused me all the more because if you were simply misremembering one of the CGs they are already official so I didn't know what the point of posting it would be. On the other hand, if you were pushing this as a proposal all of its own, I was confused again by the lack of prow weaponry (unprecedented on a Chaos base cruiser) and the tremendous amount of broadside firepower (unprecedented on either a Chaos or Imperial cruiser or heavy/battle cruiser).

[Mazila]

Think of it as of a Murder class with replaced prow weaponry and rerouted energy grid.

Murder has no prow WB's and I actually convert mine that they dont have them by cutting it off and sticking a lance turret under the prow. Vengeance has no prow weapons, repulsive has no prow weapons, but has torps. So some chaos ships do in fact lack prow weapons.

It's firepower is not that high actually, but maybe reducing to 8 WB will work

[horizon]

Hi,
Repulsive has prow weapons (torps).

your vessel:

190pts  Executor Class (looks like slaughterer but with different bridge)

Hits 8,moove 25cm,turn 45, shields 2, armor 5+, turrets 2

Port WB     10   45
Starboard WB 10   45
Port lance  2  45
Starboard lance 2 45

Should be compared to the Hades.

Hades: +10pts.
Has prow & dorsal str2 lances @ 60cm instead of port/starboard lances @45cm.
So the Hades pays 10pts for +15cm on 4 lances.

Hades can do max:
prow @ 60: 4 lances
port @ 45: 10 batteries + 2 lances  (10 batteries offside).

Your Exec.
prow none
port @ 45: 10 batteries + 2 lances (10 batteries + 2 lances offside).

So, executor is better in a melee (both sides firing).
Hades better when going prow on.

But with such a slight difference I do no think the Executor (sorry) has a place in a Chaos fleet.

[Mazila]

I always thought that funmade ships are for fun and conversions and therefore should be weaker or cost more points than the bluebook ships.

BTW the BON Heretic can be made legal with no problems i think, just limit it to 1/1000

[flybywire-E2C]

Hi all! We're getting ready to debate ships, keeping in mind that the Hecate is pretty much a shoe-in as a Mars precursor. BTW Sigoroth, you said something about a cruiser variant Hecate without dorsal weaponry. Where did you see that profile? The only Hecate I know about was a heavy cruiser variant.

I'm pitching to the HA's a Slaughter heavy cruiser to replace the Hellfire. I've never minded the name, but Sigoroth's suggestion for a mythological name intrigues me. You guys fight about it and tell me what we're calling it.

I am REALLY intrigued with the Pillager profile, though to be honest I still haven't play-tested it so I can't say what its really worth (Smotherman's formula is a guideline, NOT a hard and fast mechanic). However, I HATE the name. Pillager sounds like something to name an Ork kroozer, not something from Chaos. Fight over the name for this one as well and tell me what we're calling it.

In my mind, three is the upper ceiling for new capital ships for Chaos, keeping in mind that every class of ship they have was stolen or somehow maintained from the Heresy. I'll go with their ability to duplicate and refit stolen cruisers on Baji IV, but designing a capital ship from scratch is an entirely different and far more complex problem set from simply refitting or even duplicating one. When taken as a whole, Chaos should in no way have anywhere near the range and depth of capital ship classes the Imperium does. This does NOT count the one-off character battle-barges, which fluff describes were almost as varied as the Primarchs themselves. Fluff also describes that just about every legion had some kind of unique and exceedingly tough battlebarge as their flagship heading the speartip, but we will only be making the three remaining main flavors plus a generic fifth. I will leave the other character battlebarges from the Horus Heresy series for the fans to create house rules for.

We should have something for you all to look at by the beginning of next week at the latest. I think it will generate a lot of smiles, except maybe from Sigoroth and Horizon, who would disagree with me if I said rain was wet. 

- Nate

[flybywire-E2C]

Hi all! We're getting ready to debate ships, keeping in mind that the Hecate is pretty much a shoe-in as a Mars precursor. BTW Sigoroth, you said something about a cruiser variant Hecate without dorsal weaponry. Where did you see that profile? The only Hecate I know about was a heavy cruiser variant.

I'm pitching to the HA's a Slaughter heavy cruiser to replace the Hellfire. I've never minded the name, but Sigoroth's suggestion for a mythological name intrigues me. You guys fight about it and tell me what we're calling it.

I am REALLY intrigued with the Pillager profile, though to be honest I still haven't play-tested it so I can't say what its really worth (Smotherman's formula is a guideline, NOT a hard and fast mechanic). However, I HATE the name. Pillager sounds like something to name an Ork kroozer, not something from Chaos. Fight over the name for this one as well and tell me what we're calling it.

In my mind, three is the upper ceiling for new capital ships for Chaos, keeping in mind that every class of ship they have was stolen or somehow maintained from the Heresy. I'll go with with the Dark Mechanicus hereteks' ability to duplicate and refit stolen cruisers on Baji IV, but designing a capital ship from scratch is an entirely different and far more complex problem set from simply refitting or even duplicating one. When taken as a whole, Chaos should in no way have anywhere near the range and depth of capital ship classes the Imperium does. This does NOT count the one-off character battle-barges, which fluff describes were almost as varied as the Primarchs themselves. Fluff also describes that just about every legion had some kind of unique and exceedingly tough battlebarge as their flagship heading the speartip, but we will only be making the three remaining main flavors plus a generic fifth. I will leave the other character battlebarges from the Horus Heresy series for the fans to create house rules for.

We should have something for you all to look at by the beginning of next week at the latest. I think it will generate a lot of smiles, except maybe from Sigoroth and Horizon, who would disagree with me if I said rain was wet. 

- Nate

[horizon]

Am I that worse these days? lol
I mean, HA is heading good directions overall (Tau, Marines, FAQ) and nitpicking is just a bad habbit we all have.

Mythological names is indeed the way to go. To keep the Chaos trend.

I await next week with my pitchfork raised.

[lastspartacus]

Any chance to give a slight bump to the Acheron broadside?

[horizon]

No! Why give the best mid range gunnery ship and 2nd best low range gunnery ship a boost???

horizon:
Acheron some lances @ 60cm: str.2 focus at one side = str.6 batteries. Not impressive.

Now at 45cm it can suddenly focus:
2 (port) lances + 2 (dorsal) lances + 6 (prow) batteries
equals:
(2x3) + (2x3) + 6 =
6 + 6 + 6 = 18 weapon battery equivalent. From 45cm and down.

max values on focus plus max range for max power:

Carnage maximum battery = 16 focusable. (45cm)
Murder maximum battery = 10 focusable. (45cm)
Styx maximum battery = 12 focusable. (60cm)
Devestation maximum battery = 12 focusable (30cm)
Hades maximum battery = 16 focusable (45cm)
Slaughter maximum battery = 20 focusable (30cm)

So... only Slaughter has more total firepower in focus. Shorter ranged though. The Acheron is best at 45cm. And the Styx is best at 60cm (heh heh).

From this you can see how effective the Carnage/Acheron combination is. At 45cm this brings an immense battery area to bearing plus several lances. [/quote[

[lastspartacus]

I say that simply because it suffers from Defiant level broadside bareness

[horizon]

Why?
What part of weaponry is it you fail to see?

[lastspartacus]

It has half a cruiser broadside, thats it.  Theres a hardpoint missing.  The entirety of its side length is occupied by 2 lances.

[horizon]

It is an odd design, the lances fire not all at the same time but in sequence.

Increasing gunnery to Acheron would make it much too strong.