If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?

[horizon]

Why on earth would I take a Desolator after that?

I mean the Desolator has an effective broadside of 4 lances + 6 batteries (equals 18 batteries).
The 9 torps are cool but difficult to apply at times.

This Desperation has 12 wb + 6wb + 3 lances as effective broadside (equals 27 batteries).

For a mere 10pts and no re-load needed.

Admiral, I expect more balance. haha.

[lastspartacus]

What if you brought the dorsal lances to 2, and dropped the prow battery to 45?

Thats balanced to me, str9 torp barrage is no laughing matter.  Especially the way I run it.  str9 space marine boarding torps eff a ship over really good.

[horizon]

You run it as a VBB, with +35 Marine costs. Ofcourse Chaos can also launch boarding torps to have some turnability.
With the new marine development thread the Desolator would be dissallowed to the Marines, just keep it in mind if the HA takes that idea on board ( I doubt it... ).

On the Desperation : give it its prow torps back.

[lastspartacus]

Im referring to taking chaos space marines aboard a desolator class, been using it for years.

I actually like the idea of batteries over torps on the Desperation?  Makes it different from the Desolator and Desecrator, the one in the additional fleet compendium.

Edit:  I was reading over Horizon's ideas on the Despoiler.  Would the stat alterations see a change in points value?  It has a really mean weaponry, but its a full 100 points more than the other main chaos battleship.  Thats huge.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Hmmm how odd. I remember it did have torps. Hahahah! wonder what happened? LOLz! I'll edit it. Howzabout I bump it to FP14 WBs? Whatchathink?

[lastspartacus]

Sad, I was hoping for something different :p

[horizon]

Thanks admiral.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Of course based on Smotherman, FP6 WBs cost only 27 points vs the 31.5 points of the Desolator. I think that was why it did have FP6 and only has a 10 point increase over the Desolator. Smotherman comes out to 317.5 points for the Desolator while it comes out to 329 points for my WB, non-torp Desperation for a 12 point difference. 10 points is low then but it shouldn't be more than 15.

I think it should work at 315 but just to be safe, make it 320 points. I can't justify increasing it any further without playtesting unless the Desolator also gets a points bump. I always felt it was a 320 point battleship. 300 was just too cheap.

Re-revised the stats.

Why would anyone take the Desolator? Well, it's still a heavy lance boat.

[lastspartacus]

Of course based on Smotherman, FP6 WBs cost only 27 points vs the 31.5 points of the Desolator. I think that was why it did have FP6 and only has a 10 point increase over the Desolator. Smotherman comes out to 317.5 points for the Desolator while it comes out to 329 points for my WB, non-torp Desperation for a 12 point difference. 10 points is low then but it shouldn't be more than 15.

I think it should work at 315 but just to be safe, make it 320 points. I can't justify increasing it any further without playtesting unless the Desolator also gets a points bump. I always felt it was a 320 point battleship. 300 was just too cheap.

Re-revised the stats.

Why would anyone take the Desolator? Well, it's still a heavy lance boat.

So is that with or without the torps?
How would you cost it if it had prow WBs instead of the str9 torp salvo.  It seems the thought is that its imbalanced as a total of str18 battery and 3 lances can be focused to a side.  Would it be balanced if the lances went down to 2 and the prow battery dropped to 30cm?

I ask simply because I have a torpedo battleship, and I have a carrier battleship.  Id like a dedicated battleship without having to always be reloading ordnance.  Impies have one, and I want one

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

So is that with or without the torps?
How would you cost it if it had prow WBs instead of the str9 torp salvo.  It seems the thought is that its imbalanced as a total of str18 battery and 3 lances can be focused to a side.  Would it be balanced if the lances went down to 2 and the prow battery dropped to 30cm?

I ask simply because I have a torpedo battleship, and I have a carrier battleship.  Id like a dedicated battleship without having to always be reloading ordnance.  Impies have one, and I want one

Check the revision I made in the last page. I put the WBs back in and upped the cost with an option for swapping torps. I feel it is a 345-350 point ship. Problem is the Desolator's underpriced by 20 cost basing on the Smotherman. Even without the Smotherman I really feel it's undercosted. If the HA is willing to bump the Desolator's cost to 320, I wouldn't mind the Desperation costing 340-350.

[lastspartacus]

While I've been aware for awhile that chaos ships in general were underpriced compared to IN, I always figured that was just their 'thing', since they didnt have alot of the bells and whistles the impies have.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Chaos has more bells and whistles than IN.

1. They have an abundance of lances, esp >30 cm lances.
2. They have more WBs per bay. Longer ranged WBs at that.
3. They have access to ABs for free even up to cruiser sized vessels.
4. They're faster than IN.
5. Cheaper too.

[lastspartacus]

Right, its Chaos.  Thats what they do :p

Really though, Smotherman says 300 for Desolator, though thats of course just an estimation.
When I say bells and whistles I mean prow armor, masses of torpedos, and nova cannons.
Ya know, fleet specific stuff.

I hope we are both just arguing for the sake of conversation, because I really don't have much vitriol either way over points discussion.

[lastspartacus]

Admiral, I am now building my Desolator to your Desperation idea

I assume the prow weaponry is 60 not 50 cm.

Gonna playtest it, but regardless, its gonna be a battleship with lotsa batteries and prow lances, so im modeling it as such.

[lastspartacus]

My Desperation class is now finished, and all those batteries look quite nice

Do you really think it deserves a str3 lance on the dorsal?  I would think 2 would be more reasonable, as 3 is almost the side lance capacity of a desolator, before you throw in the str18 battery shot.  Just seems to take away from the Desolator's role as a lance boat.

Ill prolly use it as str2 dorsal lances at 315 points or so.