August 03, 2024, 05:20:19 PM

Author Topic: Marines - a discussion  (Read 8913 times)

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2010, 07:21:49 PM »
It's been some time since I got back to this, but I'm not convinced about the hunters for swords. Shouldn't the gladius fill the role of the sword? It seems to me having that little boarding torpedo squadron could be more advantageous than more sword equivalents.

Interesting idea with the thawks too.
-Vaaish

Offline horizon

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2010, 07:25:16 PM »
Agreed. Hunters are awesome. They can do boarding torps as well. High speed and normal armour unlike the Cobra.

You could consider Firestorms: much needed lances in the Marine fleet. It is down to like being fluffy or not.

Gladius vs Swords = 5pts for 5cm speed.

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2010, 08:08:40 PM »
Lances might be nice, but I think I'd need more than three firestorms and I'm not thoroughly convinced that I want lances that badly.
-Vaaish

Offline Seahawk

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2010, 04:12:26 AM »
True enough. I just tend to like weapons batteries over torpedoes I guess.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2010, 05:40:48 PM »
Speaking of marines, is the Gladius class escort's speed a typo?  Always wondered why it was 30 and not 35

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2010, 08:33:18 AM »
Bump, I really wanna know.

Offline horizon

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2010, 10:24:42 AM »
Intentional.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2010, 06:12:51 PM »
Odd. Makes me sad :)

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2011, 10:03:31 PM »
Ancient thread, ARISE I COMMAND THEE!!!

I didn't feel like creating a new thread for this so I'm dredging it back up from the depths. Basically, I've tweaked the original fleet I posted earlier based on the new marine list and gave it a few playtest run throughs to see how it help up against my typical marine fleet and a Bakka Light cruiser fleet. What I've been playing with is this:

1x BB
3x SC + Shield
2x SC + Bombardment cannon
3x Gladius
3x Hunter

So far I've pitted it against this fleet:
1x Emperor
2x Lunar +NC
2x Vengeance
2x Dauntless Torpedo

This game ended up pretty bloody since I deployed on the long table edges and the marines went AAF. End result was that the marines lost after disengaging. It came down to the Emperor being untouched and the marines with three SC remaining and one hit left on the BB. All that remained of the IN fleet was one lunar and the emperor. Basically it was just a matter of time until some of the emperors bombers made it though and killed the remaining strike cruisers. MVP was the two BC Strike cruisers for pasting a dauntless and crippling a vengeance. s16 BC hurt A LOT. It also didn't help I played it risky by holding off on bracing my ships in the face of that firepower.

Second game I playtested the Bakka Fleet list I've been fiddling with for a friend. I wanted to see how the thing performed before I let him use it so our upcoming battle with my marine test list didn't result in him getting pasted. The list was high ordnance resilience:

2x Vengeance
1x Armageddon + turret
4x Endeavour + turret
2x Endurance + turret

This game ended with a win for the marines after deploying on the short edges. I chalk this up to really good marine rolls and really bad IN roles for it not being closer. Again the 2x bombardment cannon SC were MVP. Their opening locked on salvo hulked the armageddon in a single turn of firing. Even with BFI, they scored 5 hits past shields which resulted in a hull breach stripping the last three. On the other side, the crazy turret light cruisers basically laughed in the face of marine thunderhawks with 4 turrets base and a couple more from turret massing, even my largest wave of 6 thunderhawks barely got one in to attack. Torpedoes fared better but were pretty easy for the CL's to intercept.

The end result was three crippled endeavours and a mostly intact vengeance up against three crippled SC and an untouched battlebarge. With the turrets halved, there wasn't much point to continue since I was having difficulty getting a good targeting solution on the SC (nebula and 2 hulks messing with firepower and LOF) so IN disengaged. I think that with some better rolling the result would be quite different though since the IN fleet was still in good standing until some lucky rolling with the BB managed to paste a full health braced Endeavour abeam and without locking on in the last turn.

What I'm finding is that the 2 shield SC are excellent investments making it far more difficult to hurt the marine ships while having a couple of BC variants provides a huge amount of firepower for the initial pass. In both cases, the hunters really didn't contribute too much and I'm thinking of dropping them for a couple more gladius and a reroll.

As for the Bakka list, my CL's see your AC and laugh. Torpedoes are more problematic but manageable with your own small salvos. I'd be curious to see how it works against some of the other fleets.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 11:44:35 PM by Vaaish »
-Vaaish

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2011, 10:47:28 PM »
I always thought the 8BC strike cruisers were insane. If the SC had the 2nd TH swapped for a shield that would allow for a smaller BC swap. I would recommend a swap of just 2, making for a total of 5. As it stands I don't know why someone wouldn't swap for BCs every single time.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2011, 11:38:33 PM »
...are you on crack, sig? the gladius is the sword analogue, and it's leaps and bounds better then the sword.

it's worth the extra 5 points.

Why is it that no one can just sit down and deal with the fact that space marines don't get the best glitter in this game?

It has been, and always will be:
Hunters:Cobras
Gladius:Swords
Nova:Firestorm.

The space marine vessels are better in every way (be it firepower, firing arc, speed or armor)
I am starting to wonder if your starting arguments for the sake of arguing!

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2011, 11:42:21 PM »
Even if it were allowed by the rules I think that going all BC would be somewhat problematic since you would end up with minimal AC support combined with very few torpedoes. That would leave you open to getting beat on by any AC as happened with my first game where the emperor eventually wore down the remaining SC which struggled to penetrate the shields. Sure it would give you a fearsome initial punch, but after that I think you'd have difficulty. Since you can't have more of the variants than the regular SC, two BC versions make for a good firebase platform while the three remaining are still quite deadly and can help with CAP or other AC needs. Taking 5 gladius gives you enough free points to make sure all of the SC have two shields as well giving a nice solid fleet that hits really hard.

Zelnik, what are you talking about? Sigs only post so far doesn't even mention escorts.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 11:45:16 PM by Vaaish »
-Vaaish

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2011, 04:49:45 AM »
Murders are poor.  If you want long range lance support, get a Desolator for cheaper.  Doesnt have to close, can keep at arms reach, just as fast, has some shield stripping WB potshots and torps to boot.

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2011, 07:06:16 AM »
is this thread somehow getting bleed over from other threads? Murders aren't even being talked about and I really don't know how that even correlates to a desolater since most fleets I've seen with murders take a desolater too. Murders are just a different method for playing chaos and create a fleet that closes rather than a stand off and circle type fleet.
-Vaaish

Offline horizon

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Re: Marines - a discussion
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2011, 07:10:51 AM »
lol, dunno, but I have no clue on Zelnik's and LastSpartacus replies and where both refer too.
I think a conspiracy to drive us crazy. ;)