Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG

[Sigoroth]

The Hero won't have +1 Manta in the duel, it'll have +6 torpedoes. In opponents ordnance phase, send 1 fighter out to remove CAP, reload, put 2 CAP out to defend against Protectors torps & fighter, then torps are free to attack.

Also note, this sort of 1 on 1 duel is the best that the Protector gets. The larger the engagement the less the 90° turn is worth and the more the +2 hits is worth. Try playing the Protector in a 2k+ game.

[lastspartacus]

Supposedly the kororvesh isnt meant for over 1500, but that doesnt make much sense as its the most militant and advanced of the Tau fleets.

If the Custodian gets better movement, with the addition of more armored prows in the fleet, and a few tweaks, I can see it being more competative in full blown battles.

[Zelnik]

I will confess, the current rules lack any sort of capacity for longevity. Something i fear Nate has completely overlooked.

[horizon]

How do you mean?

What is the difference with the old FW Tau fleet list in that regard?


I see the fleet as being competitive. Perhaps that is because I never go above 1500pts/1750pts?
As background wise our 1500pts battles are extremely rare.
In the entire 40k universe!
Most likely the most common battle would be around 100-500pts.

[Sigoroth]

How do you mean?

What is the difference with the old FW Tau fleet list in that regard?


I see the fleet as being competitive. Perhaps that is because I never go above 1500pts/1750pts?
As background wise our 1500pts battles are extremely rare.
In the entire 40k universe!
Most likely the most common battle would be around 100-500pts.

Yeah, and fist fights are likely more common than full scale battles, but who wants to play that? I'm more interested in fleet engagements, rather than minor skirmishes.

[horizon]

lol.

500pts can be pretty cool battles.

[Xyon]

Ok,  with 44 pages of stuff, I dont feel like reading through them all before posting my comments on the current draft of the tau fleet.     By no means am I an expert on tau, I dont have a tau fleet, nor do any players in my area have one that I'm aware of.  

Now then, on to my main point.   It has been pointed out before by myself,  and maybe others in this thread.  but is it really necessary to call their lances ion cannons and their batteries  rail-guns?  Does it add anything by making this distinction if they're just going to have the same rules as what everyone else uses?   Is the extra two short paragraphs really needed?  And do they need to be called gravitic launchers?   Can't you just put in a note about tau torpedoes without coming up with a new name on how they're launched.

By all means please answer my questions about the naming seriously, I want to know.  I'm willing to accept a good explanation, and if one has been given all ready, tell me what page of the thread and I'll look for it.  Otherwise, there's a whole lot of wording being used telling us how apples taste when we've all ready been told how they taste in other places.

Putting all of that aside, the ships seem pretty versitile and good for their points.   Its late right now for me though, I can go more in depth into my opinions later on once I've had some sleep.

[horizon]

lol, these have been the exact same names as in the Armada book (the GW Tau fleet).  That was a printed book. With an established pdf. So .... ofcourse this Tau draft uses the same name.

Furthermore: it sounds cool.
And Gravitic Missiles is something different then torpedoes.

[lastspartacus]

I will confess, the current rules lack any sort of capacity for longevity. Something i fear Nate has completely overlooked.

You're mostly right.
The issue with the Tau fleet, and primarily the Kororvesh, is they suffer a kind of 'Eldar-Envy Syndrome'.

The same method of attack is there, but the things that make it work arent.
At the core of both: Alpha strike fleet with fragile ships, that rely on hitting hard and first.
So neither are attrition fleets by any stretch.  What the Eldar have going for them that make this work are great speed,
insane maneuverability, and great damage denial.
Tau have to get by at the same game plan with less maneuverability, devastating weaponry, speed, and damage denial.

More armored prows at least helped the damage denial part.

[horizon]

Eldar MMS I guess?

Well, Eldar have less weaponry (but better) then similar hulls in the Tau fleets. Most of the time less ordnance. More turrets as well. Less expensive ships available. Better armour overall. Tau have longer reach on their weapons (wb/lances/missiles).

Oh, Zelnik thinks the Protector owns the Hero in small games. What about that.... lol.
A toned down Hero would even be less victorious against a Protector by Zelnik's approach.

Now if Sigorot & LS think the Protector should be 170pts what would Zelnik make the Hero?

Whoa!


Nah, 185 is fine for Protector.
180 is fine for a restricted unchanged per profile Hero.

[Xyon]

lol, these have been the exact same names as in the Armada book (the GW Tau fleet).  That was a printed book. With an established pdf. So .... ofcourse this Tau draft uses the same name.

Furthermore: it sounds cool.
And Gravitic Missiles is something different then torpedoes.

Yeah, I know,  I have my copy of Armada, remember from that warseer thread?

Grav are different than torpedoes because they have special rules, but they're basically guided or homing torpedoes that can go at different chosen speeds.  It could easily be sumarized as such.

Torpedoes.
Tau torpedoes can go between 20-40cm each time they move.  The tau player can turn the torpedo wave 45 degrees in either direction before moving the torpedo wave. Every time you move the torpedo wave, not counting the turn they launched, roll a d6 for each pt of strength, for each 6 reduce the strength of the wave by 1.


There,  you don't have to bring gravitic into it at all.   I know that things are given a special name in Armada, but that doesnt mean we need to keep that trend?

  I think the deflectors could probably be gotten rid of as well, just give the ships that have it front armor 6+.   And add a note that replaces the deflectors entry.   Tau ships that suffer a prow weapon damaged critical  result will reduce front armor to 5+ until repaired.


Just about the only thing I'd keep 'special' that has been given special names would be the tracking system and the grav hooks.  There's no need to keep the other special things to try and make tau seem more special than they actually are.

[horizon]

C'mon. Your creating a dull background and all.

What's next? Pyro-Acid Batteries deleted eg weapon batteries with special rule for Nids?

Prow Deflector =/= prow armour.

[Vaaish]

I know that things are given a special name in Armada, but that doesnt mean we need to keep that trend?

I'd say yes we do need to keep the trend going. It adds interest and variety to the background which is a good thing to have. Removing that would be a mistake.

[Xyon]

So why are eldar weapon batteries still called weapon batteries?  Kroot have weapon batteries that are called weapon batteries.  So do demiurg.  Tyranids are the only fleet I'd say would deserve the special names because they're biological weapons and not mechanical weapons.  Necrons have special names because their weapons actually do different things.

Either give each fleet a different name for the same type of weapon (weapon batteries, lances, torpedoes) because you want to keep things "interesting"    or give them the same name.   Only giving some fleets different names to keep things "interesting" has the opposite effect.  And quite frankly if you need to name weapons something different to keep things interesting,  you're not having all that much fun in the first place. 

So far it seems to be a difference in opinion however,  and no actual substantial reason why they're named different.   If no substantial reason can be given, then I'm willing to agree to disagree, but I also strongly suggest just changing the names back, if tau are not interesting enough on their own without having to be given special names for mundane WB and lances, then the fleet needs rethinking.

[Vaaish]

Fine, you can call everything WB if you like but fluff defines all that makes the 40k universe what it is. The more diversity the richer the universe and the more compelling it is. Take that away and you just have generic items in a generic world populated by generic people. In this case, Tau always use Ion Cannons, Railguns, and Guided Missiles. That's who they are. When they call these weapons that that every time they show up, both in fluff and games, why on earth would you just call their weapons by the generic WB descriptor?