Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG

[KivArn]

yup, so it does... been too long since i've played 

It's only a small change to the minimum distance (2.5 cm) iin any case

There are some benefits though, getting into weapons range faster, getting behind ships etc

[lastspartacus]

Perhaps in some cases, though given their long range nature I dont know why you would have them going out any distance past the normal fleet.

Honestly, Id rather em be 15 cm, but Im sure they wont give us that ^^

[flybywire-E2C]

The Castellan with 2 RG@45cm and 2 missiles is NOT conflicted. It is a GRAND design in the Tau fleet and should be kept. Do NOT mess with it.

Veto from me. (Like that counts... ).

Perhaps Nate should chip in of the list I posted is legal or not. Just to avoid future confusions.

I've been out of Internet access for more than a week now. Which list are you talking about?

- Nate

[horizon]

A list with 2 Custodians at TaEXACT 1500pts.
Allowed or not?

Kor'o + Aun'el
Custodian
3* Warden
Custodian
3* Warden
3* Protector
=1500

[lastspartacus]

I have a question about something I just noticed, now looking more in detail at the PDF as I intend to start a FW tau fleet

The Custodian only has 4 shields.  Now, its battleship priced, and already has 2 less hits than other battleships.  Why no 4th shield?

Also, could we please have a 3rd cruiser variant?  I like purist fleets, and I just want some more variety for the base ship class is all.

[Sigoroth]

I have a question about something I just noticed, now looking more in detail at the PDF as I intend to start a FW tau fleet

The Custodian only has 4 shields.  Now, its battleship priced, and already has 2 less hits than other battleships.  Why no 4th shield?

Also, could we please have a 3rd cruiser variant?  I like purist fleets, and I just want some more variety for the base ship class is all.

In essence the Custodian is a grand cruiser. I think it should be labelled as such so that it benefits from a cruisers turning circle (leave it unable to CTNH). At 45° turn rate and 15cm minimum move to turn this will be a tremendously sluggish vessel compared to the rest of the fleet.

A Protector could move go on CTNH, move 10cm, turn 90°, move 10cm and turn once more to be facing directly backwards (14.14cm "back" from where it started, at a 45° angle). Even if the Custodian was granted grand cruiser status it would take 4 turns for it to turn around fully (unassisted by gravity wells). As it stands however it would finish 39.2cm away from its starting point (15cm back, 36.2cm to a side). With a cruiser turning circle it would only be 26.13cm away from its starting point (10cm back, 24.14cm to a side). Hell, it wouldn't even be too much to allow it to go on CTNH, since when using CTNH it would still have a wider turning circle than a Protector that didn't use the order (though it would make it much easier to keep up).

As for extra Protector variants, to be honest I don't think we should have any variant at all. This is simply because the model is non-modular and therefore makes it harder to convert. The Emissary on the other hand is fairly simple. If you consider the 2 wingtip guns to be lances then the hook variant would have these clipped off. If not, you could simply put a turret on the round sections on the wings (top or bottom) for the lance variant. So a lance or hook variant would be fine for the Emissary, but I don't see the fighter or torp variant happening.

If it weren't for model considerations I'd have no objections to multiple Protector variants.

[lastspartacus]

I'd be happy converting honestly.

Taking away battleship status would be a boon to the Custodian.  I'm just noticing it now that I plan on buying them, like I said, but the Custodian is like a totally different ship compared to the rest of the fleet, like a holdover from GW Tau.

My main issue is that the Custodian has battleship mobility, battleship price, and grand cruiser weapon ranges and defenses.

I don't see why I would ever take a Custodian, or see it as a real asset to my fleet compared to other choices.  Id rather take many Protectors.

[horizon]

Official pdf's should only give models which are "out of the box or blister", so no conversions needed.

The Custodian is cool & good. Grand Cruiser label to it and done with it.

[lastspartacus]

145 point increase, almost double cost, and for that cost you gain 5 attack craft and 3 torpedos, almost identical weaponry (!),
durability increase and becomes much more immobile.  Just meh.  Not even battleship grade weapon ranges.  It would be cool if it could at least have its weaponry go to 60cm.  2 more batteries on each side would be dandy as well.  60cm would really synergize well with targeting systems.

[horizon]

wtf...

No 60cm weapons on Tau. We do not want codex creep!!

Now, you need to sway your view. With these Tau rules the FW fleet has no attack carriers. Only Attack cruisers with gunnery and a launch bay to clear fighters for missiles.
The Custodians fills a role and has a place. To be the only carrier.

I dish out 330 with pleasure. As a grand cruiser. lol

[lastspartacus]

I didn't mean at the expense of the ordnance.  I just dont understand why this thing costs as much as a Retribution, and is far weaker in its offense in defense.  

I'm trying to like it, really.

Edit:  And the variant protector really doesnt simply lose 4 batteries for another torpedo.  Thats a typo, right?

[horizon]

Well, it did but Nate promised to fix the Protector (both 5 missiles).

The Custodian can win against a Retribution (which costs 15pts more).
The Retribution can win against a Custodian (which costs 15pts less).

[KivArn]

The gained torp is a typo, both should be 5

You are gaining weapons batteries and fire arcs at the expense of ranged ion cannons

The custodian is a carrier - better than weapons batteries... has resilient bombers, better torpedoes, tracking systems. It is also THE carrier of the fleet, the retribution is just an over large tyrant - doesn't add as much to the fleet as a whole.

[lastspartacus]

The Custodian beats a Retribution, Horizon? 0.o
If one on one, what about 2 on 2?  I ask because of the Ret's more powerful all around weaponry.
I just think the Custodian is overpriced by a bit, is what I'm saying.


On the Protector, I see the subtle difference now.  Is it really an option to lose str4 battery power and turning option on your lances to increase said lances by 15cm?  Sounds pretty weak to me.

[horizon]

On the Protector. Yes it is. I would take them on a 1:1 basis. That extra punch from lances above 30cm can be annoying to any attack plan.

The Custodian can do a slow approach, the Retribution needs to come close to make use of its batteries. The torps from the Retribution are ill suited in the duel. The Missiles can turn plus the Custodian can overwhelm with Manta's (+fighters for suppression) + Missiles. The Retribution has no defence vs that.

The Custodian can do 8 batteries + 2 lances @ 45cm. Given the tracking systems it is more like 10 batteries + 2 lances @ 45cm. So, in the gunnery it is only 2 wb @ 1 lance weaker then a Retribution in the 31-45cm range.

You should also remember that the Custodian has the cost of 3 Wardens in it. The 330 pts include at least 15pts for Wardens.