13th Crusade List. Any thoughts?

[Zhukov]

Hey all,

1x Styx
1x Carnage
2x Murder
2x Slaughter

All daemonships. All with Mark of Slaanesh (in spectral form they all give a -3 Ld to vessels in 15cm which I thought was really cool).
1400 pts. (i decided against using the last 100 on escorts because they're easy VP's to my enemy)

OR

1x Desolator (with Mark of Khorne) (fast battleship with those boarding modifiers? Scary.)
1x Styx (with Mark of Tzeentch)
2x Murder
2x Slaughter (both with Marks of Slaanesh)

All daemonships
1500pts.


Any thoughts? I can't find anything in the rules saying these lists are illegal.

-Zhukov

[phil-o-mat]

the styx is too expensive, take a devastation or two to replace the murders and the styx and take eventually another carnage.

phil

[horizon]

Despoiler ain't fast at all...

Desolator is much cooler and better. imo.

Styx is cool.

[Zhukov]

@Horizon
Oops I meant Desolater in that second list. I fixed the typo. Hopefully it makes more sense now.

@Phil,
Interesting thought. Take off Styx and two Murders and gain two Devastations and one Carnage. Hm...

Still pondering away....

-Zhukov

[phil-o-mat]

i don`t think that the styx isn`t cool. i use one for myself, but only in bigger games. in the smaller games i played him, he had drawn too much fire.

phil

[fracas]

devastations and carnages are very popular chaos cruisers

[horizon]

Styx is my only carrier in 1500pts

And yes, Devestations and Carnages are pretty popular. Especially since they support each other very well.

[RayB HA]

This fleet isn't legal. You have to have a fleet commander in a fleet of over 745pts, as is written in the chunk of armada pages that didn't make it online.

As a fleet commander or character can't capatin a demonship you'll have to have at least one normal cap ship. (note: this could be a slaughter or some other cheap cruiser if you really want, as even if demon ships are the most expensive ship you can't put a fleet commander on one).

I can't really see a daemonship fleet working so well though, demonships are only really good as a leadership mod and as bullet shields you can easily disengage...

Cheers,

RayB

[Zhukov]

I own the Armada book, no need for the online PDF.

First off, it says that you must purchase a fleet commander in the 13th Crusade list if you have any capital ships, not a point restriction (that's the incursion list). Second, any number of capital ships may be upgraded to a deamonship.

So as written, these list's don't contradict any written rules.

And I can see a fleet of Daemonships working excellently! Your only used to one or two daemonships on the field at a time, not a fleet. Could you imagine the chaos (no pun intended) of the enemy when every one of these ships in placed on the table at the same time right in the midst of the enemy fleet!?! In the pure Slaanesh fleet, the enemy would have a really hard time doing ANYTHING because most of his fleet would be under the -3 Ld (I would imagine). In the other, replacing the Carnage with the Desolator, is harder to play but still has good advantages (re-roll for the Styx being one of them).

-Zhukov

[trynerror]

Ray referes to page 7.

In case you upgrade all capitals to Deamonships and none is left for the Chaos Warmaster to assign him to you are not allowed to field the fleet if it is 750+ because of page 7. To be legal you must have a non-Deamonship for the Warmaster and the Warmaster.

[Zhukov]

Ah, ok, I did miss that. Now I could make an argument that the part about any capital ships may be upgraded to daemonships counts as "specifically stated otherwise in the fleet list" but I won't press the issue any further. I will just cry for a little bit as my dreams are dashed. LOL!

-Zhukov

[RayB HA]

Zhukov,

I'm not sure having a normal ship is such a bad thing, you will have rerolls, and maybe(should have) launch bays to make use of the good leadership.

My real problem with this fleet is it's cost, and when they do become 'solid' if 'deep striking' them, they'll be shot at for a full turn before they can retaliate.
Also certain scenarios like planetary assualt will be next to impossible (as demonships don't contribute).

Cheers,

RayB

[Zhukov]

Another advantage (almost a necessity!) to having a real ship is it forces the enemy to move toward something in general. How would a standard engagement be played if at the start of the scenario every vessel in the Chaos fleet is off table???

Cost, in $ or in points of vessels in game? Because converting vessels to Daemonships without using the actual bits from GW isn't hard. In game, this is essentially a normal sized fleet minus escort ships.

As far as the "shot at one full turn in advance" argument, it's highly possible. But if a whole fleet started basically behind you, you can only get to about 90* turns without doing CTNH, which might not be really possible because you have so many Ld modifiers. I don't see this as being a negative to the fleet as a whole IMO.

Tyranids can't play as defenders in a Convoy scenario so Daemonships wouldn't take part in planetary Assaults as an attacker, but a defender? I can see that being interesting.

-Zhukov

[RayB HA]

Demonships are part of the Chaos fleet so all scenarios are up for grabs. There are definate advantages to the daemon fleet but certain scenarios will see it fail. However, it sounds like it could be fun either way! 

[Zhukov]

Ah yes I misspoke on my last post. I meant to say Deamonfleets wouldn't make sense as Attackers of a planetary Assault but Defenders would be nifty.

-Zhukov