Imperial Navy ships in a Chaos Fleet

[Zhukov]

Hello all,

I have been looking over the fleet lists and the lore to the Chaos side and since the Chaos fleets are almost all Imperial ships designs, is their a provision to use captured "modern" IN vessels in the Chaos fleet? Whether this is the Gothic War Incursion list or 13th Black Crusade list makes no difference to me.

-Zhukov

[Vaaish]

none that I know of.

[horizon]

Not really. But you could always make a IN fleet and use them as modern renegades. This happens a lot. Especially if you keep it fluffy small fleets (eg 1 capital ship, some escorts and a modified merchant fleet).

[Valhallan]

The best you can legally do is use the IN Bastion fleet (imperial fleets pdf), where it allows you to reserve in a handful of chaos ships - normal reserves 1:3 by class of ship - however some really bad things can happen when failing or rolling doubles for special orders.

on the plus side they have 0-5 veteran captains who operate just like chaos lords.

side note:
i'm tinkering with the idea of being able to 'rebuild' captured hulks in campaigns, not sure how it will effect the balance, but hey, playing friendly games is about fun.

[RayB HA]

Dare I suggest Chaos and IN being able to take reserves from each others lists... It's a little bit incorrect but if your opponent agrees.

Valhallan,

In some cases that'll be pretty cool, but Nids, Necrons and Eldar should be excluded from this in all ways.

Cheers,

RayB HA

[Zhukov]

Dare I suggest Chaos and IN being able to take reserves from each others lists... It's a little bit incorrect but if your opponent agrees.

Cheers,

RayB HA

If the Imps get the Bastion list then i say the Chaos should have the chance of having a renegade "modern" Imp cruiser(s?) in their fleet.

[fracas]

Dare I suggest Chaos and IN being able to take reserves from each others lists... It's a little bit incorrect but if your opponent agrees.

Cheers,

RayB HA

dare away because i think you should include this in the FAQ as an option
but for the standard chaos list, not the 13th crusade list?

[trynerror]

I think giving Chaos the option to include NC is a real threat to balancing. any other IN is no problem I expect.

[Valhallan]

IIRC, the bastion list lets you reserve in: hades, murder, carnage, devastation, maybe another. However, no options/upgrades may be taken for those ships (ie the full lancer murder).

limiting which IN ships a chaos fleet could reserve would work quite well. I'd say offhand: Lunar (no NC upgrade), Gothic, Dictator, Dauntless, and perhaps Armageddon.

Ray, good call on the nid, bot, elf thing. nid ships are alive and cannot be crewed - and they would just eat a hulk they captured. bot ships would be sent to mars to study. Eldar would be too proud to use other captured vessels, but perhaps tau/In/chaos could work out a way to fly those solar winds.

[Zhukov]

For everyone pointing out the Bastion list:

I am in full knowledge of this list. But I was hoping for more Chaos vessels with a supporting Imp vessel, compared to the other way around.

The cruiser selection I would allow is this:
Overlord (without turret upgrade only?), Armageddon, Lunar, Gothic, Dauntless. (Bastion fleet options are 2 Grand Cruisers, 1 Heavy Cruiser, and 2 Cruisers)

Val,
I do not think anybody but Eldar could "fly" Eldar vessels during the course of the campaign. UNLESS you and your opponet agree that the Ad Mech got a hold of an Eldar vessel and studied it extensively BEFORE this campaign started.

-Zhukov

[Valhallan]

awesome! i didn't know which ships were in that list.
i would totallly just reverse it like you did, overlord (you could take that turret, most chaos equivalents have 3 turrets), 'ged, lunar, gothic, Dictator (cuz chaos doesn't really use light cruisers )
____________
the side note on campaignin':
i'm just gonna be starting a game with nids, IN and Eldar, it'd be lame if the only captured hulk that could be used would be the IN's hulks used by the eldar - that'd just give them even more advantage then they already have.
research by spending extra points maybe? - (i used a half way between offical and goya's for my campaign rules - it does include points) - maybe pay twice the cost of a captured hulk to use it?

[Zhukov]

Actually Val, my chief argument on a Dauntless over a Dictator is the fact that the Dauntless is easier to get a hold of. My next point is the Dictator is not built for using Swiftdeath, Doomfire, or Dreadclaws and it's short and limited WB armament means its hard to incorporate into the fleet. The Dauntless on the other hand has the speed to keep up with Chaos cruisers and so adds a great punch at short range. Imagine Dauntless' with Slaughter's!!!

I believe giving the Chaos Incursion list access to "modern" renegade Imp vessels balances out with the Demonships and Space Marines the 13th Crusade list recieves.

Eldar using captured Imp stuff is TOTALLY against the Eldar way of doing things. I like the idea of doubling the cost of using Eldar vessels though. Maybe even triple price? I know it's steep but you are talking an ELDAR vessel....

-Zhukov

[DarknessEternal]

Dare I suggest Chaos and IN being able to take reserves from each others lists... It's a little bit incorrect but if your opponent agrees.

So you're fine with IN and Chaos in the same fleet but Eldar fleets are left with the reserve mess they're in?

[Valhallan]

ray didn't say he was 'fine' with it, just opponent permission - like any other house rule.

zhukov, great point on the daunt, and the note about the dictator not being set up for A-boats.

the only issue with the daunt, is that it brings super-cheap lances to help with all those WB that a chaos fleet brings (as opposed to the kinda-cheap lances from murder, hades, etc.). this may throw some things a lil' too off balance. I'd say play it w/ your friends, then give us some feedback. (i'd do it, but i'm busy testing nemesis ships and trying to set up a campaign)

[trynerror]

The Daunt is the best a Chaos player can hope for, regarding the requirements for battleships/grand cruisers. It was an exclusive advantage for IN to field a battleships in 750 - till now if you play with this houserule. Think of three Daunts and a Despoiler in 750 ...