BFG FAQ 2010 Ordnance Questions

[horizon]

Torpedoes are not carried over, I am sure that's ruled.

In FAQ2010 The Retribution can split its wave in one turn though.

[RCgothic]

Why are torpedoes different? Both are Ordnance.

It seems odd to me to rule one way for AC and a different way for Torps. There should be consistency, either launching individually is OK for all, or it isn't.

My personal ruling would be that if you fire/launch a particular weapon hardpoint, it must be fired at full power, no holding back! But if you are going to allow less than full power for AC, why not other weapons systems?

[Vaaish]

Horizon, I'm not sure about what you are saying there. The ordinance rules say you have to RO before launching again so even if you launch just two fighters on a ship with a capacity for four you'd have to RO before launching again just like with torpedoes. Maybe I missed something in the FAQ?

[horizon]

RcG, if you wish to fire only 3 batteries from a Lunar there is no rule preventing to do so. (eg splitting fire).

I kinda see the logic of torps vs ordance and the difference of loading mechanic.

To hold back AC can be a tactic, holding back batteries might seem... odd?

Vaaish,
I believe answer-mod Sigoroth ruled that once upon a time. And I do believe it was in a FAQ...

It also makes sense for attack craft:
you are loaded, launch 1 wave in a turn and keep another wave for a later turn.

[RCgothic]

So why can't you launch 2 torps, and hold back 4 for the next turns?

[BlueDagger]

While that makes sense fluff wise, it would make tracking of what has what loaded a little complicated. Imagine a Tau Missile Fleet launching odd numbers of salvos each turn and trying to keep track of every ship and how many it has left vs what is full or depleted. For game simplicity it should really be all or nothing.

[Vaaish]

Horizon, I'm not seeing that in the current draft FAQ so I'd fall back to the original rules in the book. You launch ordnance and must reload before launching again regardless of how much you launched. It reduces paperwork since you don't need to track which ship has which markers on the board and it works the same for all ordnance types.

[Sigoroth]

Each marker is considered its own entity as far as being launchable is concerned. If you have a Dictator you can launch 4 AC markers, each of strength 1, and 1 torpedo marker with a strength of up to 6. Whatever you decide to fire is expended. Whatever you don't fire is still loaded. So if you fire 2 torpedoes, say, to fit the salvo through a narrow gap in your lines, then your torpedo marker has been expended and it requires a reload order to be able to fire your torpedoes again.

Both these issues (the holding over of AC and the inability to hold over torpedoes) have been ruled upon by the HA a long time ago, not that I could be bothered looking for the rulings.


However, there are some common sense considerations that confirm this ruling to a degree. Firstly, a Dictator that fires its torpedoes in one turn could not possibly have to RO in order to launch its AC. This would be ridiculous. By extension a carrier that launches from its port bays only should certainly not need to reload again before launching from its starboard bays.

As for the rule which says that when a ship has launched its ordnance it must RO before launching again, this strongly implies having launched all its ordnance. For example, the ordnance complement of an Emperor BB is 8 AC. So once it has launched its ordnance (8 AC) then it must reload before launching again. While it still has AC then it hasn't yet launched its ordnance complement.

Again, torpedoes are launched as a single marker, of variable strength. A single fighter can take out a single torpedo marker, whether it is a strength 1 or 27.

[fracas]

So if it's possible to not launch all Ordnance, can a Retribution fire 6 torps in one turn and 3 in the next?

What about cruisers, perhaps firing one torp every turn for six successive turns?

great question
this seems an odd loophole

perhaps all ordnance must be launched with each launching; partial launches should not be allowed.
or that reload is necessary for each launch, regardless of the size of the launch

[Trasvi]

Further reading of pg28 shows that "Torpedo salvos have a strength value and a speed value, which are shown on the ship's characteristics. The higher the strength, the more torpedoes there are." This would imply that if you have S6 torpedoes, you have no option but to fire S6 torpedoes.

On the other hand "Launch bays are rated by the number of squadrons they must launch at once." Use of the word CAN might suggest that you can launch less than that if you wish.

I would suggest that once ordnance has been launched from one hard point, you may not launch ordnance from that hard point again before reloading.
This way if you have a ship with Port and Starboard launch bays, and prow torpedoes, and you fire the torps+ even one of your Port AC in one turn, you may still launch from the Starboard side before you need to reload.


Edit: What about a ship that has launched a portion of its ordnance, and then is crippled or braced? I assume you would just halve the amount remaining, but some might say that if you have launched 2 out of 4 and then are crippled, you now have 0 out of 2.

[horizon]

Phew,  I am glad Sigoroth backed me up on the ancient rulings....

[RCgothic]

Further reading of pg28 shows that "Torpedo salvos have a strength value and a speed value, which are shown on the ship's characteristics. The higher the strength, the more torpedoes there are." This would imply that if you have S6 torpedoes, you have no option but to fire S6 torpedoes.

On the other hand "Launch bays are rated by the number of squadrons they must launch at once." Use of the word CAN might suggest that you can launch less than that if you wish.

Firstly, if as Horizon says, there is nothing forcing you to fire an entire salvo of weaponry at once, if you fired 4 you would still have 2 loaded. Weapons Batteries are also described as firing by Salvoes.

Secondly, I don't think "CAN LAUNCH 4" is used in any sense other than "CANNOT LAUNCH MORE THAN 4".

[Trasvi]

Further reading of pg28 shows that "Torpedo salvos have a strength value and a speed value, which are shown on the ship's characteristics. The higher the strength, the more torpedoes there are." This would imply that if you have S6 torpedoes, you have no option but to fire S6 torpedoes.

On the other hand "Launch bays are rated by the number of squadrons they must launch at once." Use of the word CAN might suggest that you can launch less than that if you wish.

Firstly, if as Horizon says, there is nothing forcing you to fire an entire salvo of weaponry at once, if you fired 4 you would still have 2 loaded. Weapons Batteries are also described as firing by Salvoes.

Secondly, I don't think "CAN LAUNCH 4" is used in any sense other than "CANNOT LAUNCH MORE THAN 4".

On the contrary, there is nothing allowing you to fire less than your allocated amount of weaponry. The rulebook says 'this is how many dice you roll'. It does not say more, or less, ergo you roll the number of dice you are told to.
Also, on the first page of the general 2010 FAQ: "Splitting Weapons Fire Against a Single Ship: You cannot split your fire at a single target!". Only firing half your weapons counts as splitting fire, right?

As for the 'can' vs 'can only' thing... that debate crops up every now and again on DakkaDakka's YMDC forum in regards to many rules in 40k. It can get pretty heated at times. If you have been given permission to launch 4 bombers, is it more or less right to assume that means 'up to 4 bombers' or 'exactly 4 bombers'? The latter requires less assumptions about the intent of the rules.

(please note that I may or may not actually agree with what I'm writing here; just playing devil's advocate)

[RCgothic]

I'm not particularly interested which way the ruling goes - I actually think S1 torp salvos over 6 turns would be pretty devastating in a war of Ordnance superiority. I just want some consistency; Either everything has to fire at full strength or nothing does.

[Mazila]

If fighters on cap as per FAQ 2010 don't count as a wave for the purpose of killing torps you should allow the torps to be fired separately. If it counts as a wave then just as it has always been - full salvo shot.