BFG FAQ 2010 Ordnance Questions

[lastspartacus]

A few suggestions to the HA.

Consideration of the 'or' limitation when turrets target bombers and torpedos.

Torpedos ignoring each other.

Blast markers and the like effecting torpedos by marker strength rather than as a whole.

Fighers removing D6 torpedos.

[Trasvi]

@LastSpartacus.

1) Shooting torpedoes OR bombers; I think this is  necessary to give bombers any hope at all against 3+ turret ships. Combined with the fact that bombers do average 1 attack each vs a 3 turret ship, the possibility of losing 3 AC from your wave brings the damage potential down to pitiful levels. If you can team up your torpedoes with your bombers you can give them SOME hope of doing a little damage.

2) Torpedoes ignoring each other. I wouldn't really mind, but it could take something out of the tactical ordnance game of using small waves or torps (escort torpedo boats) to protect against larger waves.

3) Blast Markers / Fighters vs Torpedos. The idea is that it is a trade-off, sending either one large wave or many smaller waves of AC/Torps. In a large wave you can do more damage, but also get taken off the board by a bad roll/chance fighter encounter. On the other hand, small waves do less damage after turrets, but let you split your eggs into many baskets just in case one of those nasty 6's shows up. Fighter - D6 torps also takes away from the strategy IMO - it would be alright for carrier fleets who have many fighters in reserve, but for fleets with only a few launch bays, using their AC totally for defense, suddenly they can't rely on their fighters to do the job anymore.

[Trasvi]

Also, just a generic question that came up at my club:

Ordnance, Ships on special orders and Crippled ships.
Ships on special orders are said to 'halve their weapon strength/firepower'. In the ship Data Sheets section at the front of the book, Strength is said to refer to special weapons like torpedoes and lances. But then in the special orders section, all orders except for BFI say that whilst Firepower/Strength is halved, Ordnance is full strength.
... So is torpedo Strength affected by orders or not?

Similarly, crippled ships halve their weapon Strength, Firepower, Turrets and Shields. Again, no mention is made in the book (pg23) of halving Launch Bays, and torpedoes again are slightly ambiguous. Does this mean a carrier ship can launch its initial full capacity even when crippled?

BFI against bombers. Can you declare BFI after you know how many attacks are going to be made, but before the actual rolls to hit? Or must you declare before you know how many attacks to brace against?

Reload ordnance and launching ordnance over multiple turns: For a ship that has multiple types of ordnance, or for some other reason decides to launch only half of its AC in one turn. Ie a Tau Protector launches its Bombers in turn one but waits until turn two before launching its torpedoes. If a ship in this situation has some of its ordnance remaining, must it still reload ordnance before it launches those remaining AC? Referencing page 27: "However, once a ship has launched its ordnance it must use the Reload Ordnance special order before it can launch ordnance again."

[horizon]

Hi Travsi,

Ordnance = Torpedoes + Attack Craft.
When loaded a ship can always launch full waves (AC+torps) on Special Orders. Except on Brace for Impact. Then it is halved.
When crippled ordnance (AC+torps) is halved as well.

BFI vs Bombers = declared before turret rolls!

Reload ordnance = You can carry a non-launched torp wave over to other turns.

[Trasvi]

When crippled ordnance (AC+torps) is halved as well.

BFI vs Bombers = declared before turret rolls!

Could you clarify these with a page reference or are they just inferred rules? The only thing I can see about crippled ships (pg23) makes no reference to launch bays.
For BFI, the rules on pg23 again state "BFI only comes into effect against attacks whose hit rolls are made after the special order is declared" which would seem to imply that you may declare after turrets as they still haven't made their hit rolls.

[horizon]

The crippled issue is clarified in the FAQ2010:
"Brace For Impact does NOT halve turret values (note that being crippled does). However, it is the only special order that halves a ship‟s ability to launch ordnance, provided the launching vessel is already reloaded. This effect is cumulative, meaning if a ship is both braced and crippled, its weapons and ordnance are halved (rounding up) again! For example, a Styx heavy cruiser that is both braced and crippled has a launch bay strength of 2, or 6/2 =3, then 3/2 =1.5 (rounding up) =2."

Turret & BFI:
FAQ2010:
"A decision to brace for impact must be made before ANY attempt to shoot (rolling dice) by the opponent is made, including modifier rolls for variable weapons such as Ork Gunz. When being attacked by ordnance, the decision must be made before rolling turrets."

Both on page2.

[RCgothic]

For the sake of clarity, a non-braced ship with LB capacity 4 launches 2 bombers only. Does it have to reload before launching another 2?

[horizon]

Don't know where it is stated but I would say no reload.

[Trasvi]

Ahh I see. Not actually in the book then.

Then, to the HA: when this FAQ is published, could an effort be made to separate out the changes/errata from the clarifications, or at least label each clearly as such? The INAT FAQ does a fairly good job of this for 40k, if you are familiar with that.
Good headings would include:
"Rules change - new rules" for additions such as turret suppression which was not in the rules previously.
"Rules change - unclear/game flow" for changes such as BFI vs Turrets, where that is the chosen way of playing but not explicitly defined in the rules, or when the rules are explicitly defined but make no sense at all and no-one would seriously play that way (can't think of one in BFG but there are quite a few in 40k, see here)
"Question - unclear" for when the rules are slightly murky, but defined in the rules if you know the 5 different paragraphs to reference
"Question - RAW" for very simple things that require only a single page number+paragraph to answer.

[Masque]

For the sake of clarity, a non-braced ship with LB capacity 4 launches 2 bombers only. Does it have to reload before launching another 2?

This is actually a very good question I have encountered a couple times in games.  If a ship with 4 bays is braced it may only launch 2 squadrons.  If it does so, may it launch the other 2 next turn?  Is the answer different if the ship isn't braced but chooses to only launch 2 squadrons?

[horizon]

When braced 2 is 2 and nothing is carried over.

[RCgothic]

That is totally not the question I thought I asked this morning. *doh*

Ship has LB Capacity 4, launches 2. Still has to reload before it can launch 2 more? Is it even possible to launch only 2 if not braced/crippled?

[Vaaish]

I don't see why not. You are allowed to remove your own ordnance if you want to recall them before the start of the ordnance phase as per page 27 of the BBB. Since you place them in the shooting phase, I don't see why you couldn't just recall two of them before the start of the ordnance phase or more simply just put two out to begin with.

[horizon]

RcG,
A ship with capacity 4:

* may launch 2 in turn 1
* may launch 2 in turn 2 without reloading.

* when braced may launch 2 in turn 1
* may not launch 2 as ship was braced before thus 2 was maximum available.

* crippled is halved before.
* crippled - braced is half-half (quartered).

I am like pretty sure that's how it goes. Someone may correct me though.

[RCgothic]

So if it's possible to not launch all Ordnance, can a Retribution fire 6 torps in one turn and 3 in the next?

What about cruisers, perhaps firing one torp every turn for six successive turns?