BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions

[Caine-HoA]

@Admiral

Whats not fair about Rays suggestion? Both players have the same condition for playing theirs fleets.

@Topic

I dont like the idea of haveing to set aside my minitures to play successfull, so persanally i wouldnt like to be allowed to overlap my own ships.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Allowing Overlapping but only between enemies. Friendlies can't Overlap. That's unfair.

[Zhukov]

Technically they already can overlap. However, D'Artagnan, you want a new rule for using overlapping as a tactic. I don't believe that's a good idea.

-Zhukov

[trynerror]

Allowing Overlapping but only between enemies. Friendlies can't Overlap. That's unfair.

You are your opponents enemy from his point of view, don´t get confused about this.
It´s not BETWEEN enemies, only if an enemy ship overlaps with one of yours or yours with one of the enemy !

[horizon]

Uh, wot?

[Caine-HoA]

@Admiral

I still dont get whats unfair about that. I dont think a game can be unfair to a part of itself (e.g. a ship) it only can be unfair to the players. As the rule is the same for both players its not unfair.

Giving players alternative fleets with different rules is a lot more unfair (as the two players have different options strenght and weaknesses) and still its part of the game and most players like to have it like that. They rather have some unfair situations (balancing question) then playing with the completely same fleets what would be a lot more fair. E.g. Chess is a lot more fair in that way.

[RayB HA]

The overlapping issue is HA sorted: You can do it without limit, but AC can attack small bases hidding in large bases. Note: if bases overlap and a ship is destroyed it's BM may take down a shield of the ships base whom it is overlaping, otherwise it can't. Also massed turrets are limited to +3.

Cheers,

RayB HA

[Vaaish]

Ray, was massed turrets too powerful? I don't see why a limit was needed on it. I might understand if the the massed turrets also applied to the reduction in bomber attacks, but as I see now, massed turrets really doesn't add a whole lot outside of escorts and fleet defense turrets for admech.

[russ_c]

The overlapping issue is HA sorted: You can do it without limit, but AC can attack small bases hidding in large bases.

..and torpedoes can not?  So I can protect my Repulsive from boarding torps by putting it "inside" my Desolater? (I could not do this in good conscience, but I'm sure a number of people will squeeze every edge case benefit out of this official ruling that they can)  Was there any play testing to try and sort out if the game changes or to find any other ways this can be abused?

If two ships with the same base size are on-top of each other, how do I determine which base the torps are resolved against first?  A die roll or attacker/defender choice?  What if two ships stacked fire torps...since the torps come from the stem, do they automatically hit the other friendly ship?

What about AC stacking? Is that permitted now or is this only for ship bases?  How about defenses, can they stack?

Russ

[horizon]

Good call on torps Russ. That'll be a general tactic vs Tau who need the Missile/Bomber synergy to win.
Just go base on base.

I see the tournaments going down with this. The playability I mean!

[russ_c]

Also, the rules for AC attacking overlapping ships is a complete contradiction to the rules "Ordnance attacks are ALWAYS solved immediately" and "Ordnance markers must always attack the first ordnance or vessel they come in contact with (when applicable)".  I see the resolution was to create a special clause ("oh, except in this case...").  I generally find that rules that create the need for special clauses is a good indicator that it's a poorly constructed rule.

What happened?  Clearly I favor: a ship can end move overlapping an enemy, but not a friendly.  I feel this is pretty true to how the game currently plays and doesn't result in a bunch of edge cases. BUT, not overlapping at all is certainly better then the proposed FAQ overlapping rules.

I'm concerned that the text of the FAQ is now larger then the rule book.  This might be an indication that the wording can be streamlined and I've noticed some statements already exist in the core rulebook and have been redundantly inserted into the FAQ.  Example: "If a combination of ships in a squadron has a firepower value greater than 20..."

Russ

[RayB HA]

Hi Russ,

I'm with you on the overlapping bases vote, but I was unable to convince my colleges to vote with me (as they were going for as little changes as possible). But it's not a mess!

Torps can hit a ship hiding in a large base, but they'll hit the big base first.

Defences can stack!

Massed turrets when combined in such away as Necron escort squadrons stacked on capital ships can get into the crazy numbers of 10 or more turrets easily with little ill effect. So the +3 limit was imposed.


On the point of rewriting the rulebook- an unofficial copy incorporating the FAQ would be a great work of human civilization!  When this FAQ is 'fixed', I can really see this happening, if I can get a few volunteers! 

Cheers,

RayB HA

[russ_c]

Torps can hit a ship hiding in a large base, but they'll hit the big base first.

I'll take a good hard look at the FAQ and give you better feedback on all things as soon as I get the time...but in the mean time:

You will need to add a clarification to the FAQ about how to resolve torps against two bases of exactly the same size that are stacked perfectly on top of one-another.

Russ

[Vaaish]

Ray, an unofficial version of the BBB isn't likely to be possible. The pdfs for the main rulebook are all image based with no selectable or editable text in it. The armada pdfs though can be edited to a degree.

[Vaaish]

Sorry for the double post, but I've been thinking about the limit of +3 turrets for massing. I can see your reasoning for the limit but I think it weakens escorts unnecessarily. Could the change limit massed turrets on capital ships to +3 and escorts to +6 (the maximum size their squadrons can be to prevent multiple 6 strong escort squadrons from stacking and gaining ridiculous turret strength).