BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions

[russ_c]

I call this nonsense. Forcing the movement of enemy ships with area denial (what this exactly means is still questionable) should be a benefit given to the player who thought of it. If forcing movement of enemy ships is a problem, then we might as well remove torpedoes and AC from the game because it's obvious they deny a much larger piece of the table real estate than lowly bases will ever do. Even direct fire weapons by themselves can deny huge areas. You want to remove those too?

Why insist on something which is totally unneeded? Sorry, Ray, I say NO to stacking. There's nothing BENEFICIAL to be gained from it and can only result in weird situations with more problems than answers both in game and reality where the models can be damaged.

Admiral, you've made some fair arguments thus far.  But this particular point is moot.  Torpedoes, AC, and even direct fire weapons don't actually deny an enemy movement options, they just make the choice more dangerous.  So it's not the same thing as actually denying the enemy space on the board to maneuver a ship into an advantageous firing position.  Try again.

Russ

[Valhallan]

you'd have to be playing a REALLY big game to cause significant area denial by bases. easily >2000, maybe >3000.
i see no issue with:
*if a base overlaps, and the stem has not crossed halfway - move it backwards into b2b. if the stem has gone over half (past the other stem) then move it forward and into b2b.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Admiral, you've made some fair arguments thus far.  But this particular point is moot.  Torpedoes, AC, and even direct fire weapons don't actually deny an enemy movement options, they just make the choice more dangerous.  So it's not the same thing as actually denying the enemy space on the board to maneuver a ship into an advantageous firing position.  Try again.

Russ

Really? You're willing to put ships in an area where torpedoes or AC will be moving through even if you can avoid it? Only situation where that will happen is if there's something good which will come out of it. Otherwise people tend to avoid areas like that. Which means that IS area denial. Because it IS dangerous to be in that area. You ARE in effect manipulating your foe into going somewhere you prefer him to go. How different is that in not allowing overlapping bases?

I need not try again.

[horizon]

*if a base overlaps, and the stem has not crossed halfway - move it backwards into b2b. if the stem has gone over half (past the other stem) then move it forward and into b2b.

Yep, with addition that boarding still needs to be declared (thus no auto boarding in this case. And this applies to friendly and enemy bases.

(this is what answer-mod Sigoroth ruled in the past iirc).

[russ_c]

Really? You're willing to put ships in an area where torpedoes or AC will be moving through even if you can avoid it? Only situation where that will happen is if there's something good which will come out of it. Otherwise people tend to avoid areas like that. Which means that IS area denial. Because it IS dangerous to be in that area. You ARE in effect manipulating your foe into going somewhere you prefer him to go. How different is that in not allowing overlapping bases?

It's different because you don't have the ability to make a choice.  As you just said, "Only in situation where...there's something good which will come out of it."  Why you can't see the difference between having a choice and none at all is beyond me.

Ray will sort it all out from here I'm sure,

Russ

[horizon]

I hope he sorts it... so far I''ve seen no points pro-overlapping.
Only sentimental veterans... lol. Kidding. We have good points. haha

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

It's different because you don't have the ability to make a choice.  As you just said, "Only in situation where...there's something good which will come out of it."  Why you can't see the difference between having a choice and none at all is beyond me.

Ray will sort it all out from here I'm sure,

Russ

How would you not have the ability to make a choice in this case of no overlapping whether bet friendly or enemy ships? The bases are big enough that they cannot obscure another base behind it unless a large base of a BB or GC is blocking the small bases. Even then, smart manuevering will get you onto the bases at the back if you really want to shoot at them.

Even with boarding, if the intended target of boarding has a few friends nearby because the owning player wants to protect it from such tactic, then by George, he should be rewarded. If the boarder still wants to try his hand at boarding a ship which has a friend nearby which can help the target in boarding resolution, then by golly, that's the boarder's choice if he wants to risk it.

If a big battleship or grand cruiser base blocked the way to the heavily damaged target of boarding, then again, kudos to the player for wanting to protect his damaged ship. In any case, you can still get to within 10 cm of the damaged ship, knockdown the shields and do a teleport attack against it. Won't destroy it unless you're one of those races with the bonus to H&R but it's going to be further hurt for sure.

[Kraken]

Hey

can you clarify , according to what you have listed for reserves ruling I would need 9 CWE escorts to take three Corsairs ones as reserves ?

and as Craftworld have no battleship getting a Stalker (which is a craftworld ship) is impossible ?

why on earth would you ever use the reserve rules , incidentally you pay 50 points on a pirate prince to be 'allowed' to use reserves rules , currently i think i would pay 50 points NOT to use them.

[horizon]

Yes, that are the rulings for reserves.

Now the downfall for the Eldar is that they need the Hero (soon to be 100pts) to access reserves.

Within MMS we did this:

Eldar may do reserves standard, with Hero the ratio is lowered to 2:1 instead of 3:1.
Neat little bonus.


You need to keep in mind that if reserve rules would be changed everyone would create a fleet with CWE cruisers, a Void Stalker
added with Nightshades / Hemlocks.

Destructive and best of both worlds in an even very strong fleet. Scary.

[Kraken]

That is entirely possible Horizon ,but atm it is completely and totally pointless, it makes the reserves rules a waste of words on a page as far as eldar go and the yriels raiders pdf might as well be printed out and saved for when you run out of toilet paper.......



Even 2:1 is not really that appealing given that for CWE to field enough corsair escorts to justify taking the prince you would still need 12 of the shadowhunters, (which is enough of a handicap) his re-rolls are so expensive on top of his grossly inflated price that I would never take them.


If you could only spend a quarter of your points on reserves that would be fine.

But currently I can only see IN or Chaos using the rules with any sort of benefit/point

 

[RayB HA]

Currently overlapping and ship stacking is allowed! I'm not inventing the rule!

I do like the 3D aspect of overlapping BUT in some cases it can be unreasonably exploited and it's quite awkward. Therefore it needs to be limited is some manner.

Disallowing friendly overlapping is NEW and extreme but IMO necessary.

KEEPING overlapping with enemy ships is really important. As otherwise you can prevent boarding from large base ships quite easily and even small base ships if you have a few ships near a likely target.

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

Area denial is the complete prevention of a ship being placed. Ordnance, weapons and even terrain don't do this so neither should an enemies base! (The reason for disallowing friendly bases is for game balance, no such need arises when on an enemy base). 

Cheers,

RayB HA

[RayB HA]

Kraken,

The reserve rules are intended for the odd ship to be thrown into the mix and not to be an unbalancing influence.   

For CWE and CE the reserve rule given by the Hero is far more limited than for conventional fleets as one is escort heavy and the other cruiser heavy making 'good' reserves a costly affair. Also it is impossible for a CWE fleet to get a Voidstalker and for the CE to get a Dragonship(unless its the Hero's ship)! The FAQ will reduce the cost of the Hero because of this.

Cheers,

RayB HA

[Kraken]

Thanks for the response Ray.

As I thought really , so reserves for Eldar will subsequently be a complete waste of time, was just shocked just how pathetic the actual amount of ships you can actually get through reserves is, if the prince can get a dragonship as his ride , why cant he take a stalker ? he does not technically belong to either list.

or am I just grasping at straws ?

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Currently overlapping and ship stacking is allowed! I'm not inventing the rule!

Can you point out specifically where it is? I've never seen the rule.

I do like the 3D aspect of overlapping BUT in some cases it can be unreasonably exploited and it's quite awkward. Therefore it needs to be limited is some manner.

True so if it can be unreasonably exploited, why allow it?

Disallowing friendly overlapping is NEW and extreme but IMO necessary.

Allowing overlapping is unnecessary in the first place.

KEEPING overlapping with enemy ships is really important. As otherwise you can prevent boarding from large base ships quite easily and even small base ships if you have a few ships near a likely target.

Again, I don't see why you should penalize one party. If he managed to protect his ships, kudos to him.

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

Area denial is the complete prevention of a ship being placed. Ordnance, weapons and even terrain don't do this so neither should an enemies base! (The reason for disallowing friendly bases is for game balance, no such need arises when on an enemy base). 

Cheers,

RayB HA

Yes but the rule you propose is awkward. Anyway, the issue is only with Boarding and not a general problem. You can still shoot at the ship being blocked. So might as well not include a rule which is awkward at best. This situation, while it may come up, will not come up that often. Allowing Overlapping will not simplify it. There is no added benefit.

[horizon]

With the admiral here. There is no thing in the rule book saying overlapping is allowed. The rules more or less say it is not allowed.

Just drop the whole thing. Please. *Puppy Eyes*.