BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions

[Vaaish]

BD: I think you are overacting. You seem to think that you will suddenly get hit with this every single turn of every single game with every shot. The odds are higher you won't get hit at all but it gives you good reason to brace your escorts and capital ships from time to time. While the wording could be cleared up I really do not think it will do more than make one more weapon useful against eldar. Just reword it a bit so that a passed holofield save doesn't create a BM but takes one damage with the NC or the ships under the hole that pass the save don't take any damage and get the BM. You can always brace like the rest of the world too to get a 4+ against that hit.

[BlueDagger]

If your attempting to fix escort spam, then why not introduce a FoC of some sort?

NC auto hits if under template means that escorts are going to brace and either die or survive a loss of 40pts, but vs capital ships which you DO want to encourage the use of you brace and have a 50% chance of dmg and 50% of crits. That means when NC hits now you have a 25% chance to score a crit against a holofield capital ship.

It will encourage escort spam that just spreads out and uses asteroids more then it already does when playing IN. Why take a capital ship that will get NCed from across the board and auto-hit on lowscatter/hit that could be getting serious dmg round 1?

[Vaaish]

So don't change the holofield because it's too great a change for a FAQ, but by all means completely reorganize the corsair fleet list? Honestly, if you play with a fair amount of phenomena there will be plenty of ways to out maneuver or block LOF to the NC but it would require more skill and effort than previously because you will have to maneuver. Secondly it will mean that Eldar need to think about bracing against something other than long range WB and maybe ordnance/AC when facing IN. Finally, as I've mentioned time and time again, the end result of the change is a slight reduction in the effectiveness of the eldar holofield which is still pretty amazing. Focusing on capital ships only, there are only around 40% odds of actually landing a hit on the target or scattering and still touching the ship at anything over 60cm where you seem to be so worried that eldar will be wiped out by the NC fire.

Yeah, there is the possibility that it'll hit or touch and you have to take a hit, but that's part of the tactics of the game. Decide when to brace and when not to and use what phenomena you have to minimize when you'll need to choose.

[horizon]

Vaaish, I think waht bluedagger means (I am connecting multiple threads and crossover with the Port here) is that with these new Holofield rules there will be even more escorts then there allready are. It would be even less worthwhile to take cruisers in a Corsair fleet.

Then again, I always find it best to not know what you will be facing. Much better for list making anyway.

[BlueDagger]

Correct Horizon, that is what I'm getting at. I will see if i can get a few play test games in with this change to get a feel for how it is. Until then I think we have all argued the points that we can on this one so best to leave the thread for other FAQ questions and let the HA make the call.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

With CE, it's all about the escorts so no change there. With CWE and DE, the cap ships are much better that you wouldn't see an escort spam. Really, I can't for the life of me figure out how making the NC better against the Eldar will result in an escort spam. Really, will the NC change totally neutralize the Eldar? I HIGHLY doubt it.

[horizon]

Seen the speed of Eldar I reckon that in most 1500 matches the IN will be happy to have 1 good Nova shot.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Yup most likely indeed 1 shot only.

[RayB HA]

I'll have a look at the wording for the NC 'answer'. The intent is that holofields can only save against the 'hole'. If succesful the effect is reduced to the template hitting the base.

This shouldn't discourage the taking of EC capital ships against NC's. You get a 2+save vs the nasty hit and then will only sufer a single hit (crits are likely, but it's just 1 hit!). Escorts just die! And 'normal' ships just take the D6 hits!

Cheers,

RayB HA 

[horizon]

So a NC which hits an Eldar ships with its hole gets D6 attacks (saveable on a 2) PLUS the auto attack for being under the blast PLUS a D6 attack next turn for being in contact with a blastmarker from the save?

So even if they save the NC they get a hit (auto) and a 16% chance of a hit next turn from the Blastmarker?

[Caine-HoA]

I think thats a bit much to be honest.
Its already threadening a Eldar player enough that Escorts will "auto-die" when under the template. And btw exactly this makes it not that less likly to hit with a NC, because when shooting at Escorts you can lay the template to hit as many as possible having a 33% chance of destroying all of them. But even if the NC-Roll is a miss its likly that at least one escort is under the template to get the auto hit because even if the template scatters everywhere around the target are escorts as well.

I guess as always with the NC in some game it will destroy too much and at some games it sucks. Another random factor as with the bombers that can influence games in a too big degree. Its ok to have some randomness but for some weapon systems its a bit too much for my taste.

[Commx]

Horizon,

The entry in the first post of the thread specifically states that no Blast Marker is placed. Similarly, it is either d6 Hits if the Holoshield Save fails, or just one Hit if it does not, not both upon failure. Because of this, the average amount of damage done will be equal to 1.42 (1/6*3.5+5/6*1), which is approximately 41% of the average damage dealt to a 'normal' vessel upon a direct hit (3.5). This means that - presuming the 'normal' vessel has two Shields which are not yet downed - they will both receive around one-and-a-half Hit from a Nova Cannon direct Hit. Personally, I consider this quite an improvement over the former average of 0.58 Hits which would be taken by the Eldar.

[trynerror]

BFI:

In the wording it gives the save against "any hits inflicted by the enemy". This should be extended by "or celetial phenomena" or fixed by ending the sentence with "incflicted". (Are torpedoes from a friendly ship attacking me "the enemy" when I fly into the salvo ?  )

I´m sure nearly everybody already played it this way, but it is not covered by the wording of the rules at the moment.



Does a Space Hulk have a low Orbit ?

I don´t think so, it has a gravity well but no atmosphere. Anything with a low Orbit can not fire it´s surface weapons on other ships in the gaming table, unless it is a low orbit table, so Space Hulks can´t have a low orbit.

I heard there are some scenarios out there in which a Space Hulk has a low Orbit, but I never came across one myself, so I doubt any official ones exist.

[Caine-HoA]

@Commx

Eldar get lower dmg from the most attacks, thats how they survive with less hitpoints and armor. An Eldar Cruiser costs more than an avarage Cruiser of most other fleets and still has less Hitpoints, thats why they are saved better. So why should a NC be able to do the same dmg? It seems fair to deal the same dmg but in most other cases/weapons its not like that.

Im not especially against it but im not for it as well. Im not sure if the rules need that change. Moreover i think games with Eldar fleets are very dependent on the scenario and the phenomena on the field/map. I dont think this rule will change this in a high degree.

[BlueDagger]

@ Commx - Your equation fails to take into account Critical hits. If a Captial Ship fails it's save against NC D6 it's going to be hurting something fierce if not outright destroyed depending on the roll.

Also if you save against any hit with holofields you place a blast marker in contact with the ship, that is in the Holofield rules. We understand that is not blast marker for just being under the template, but if you save the direct hit you place the marker then take an auto hit then 17% to dmg again next turn. Hence what Horizon was saying.