BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions

[Plaxor]

He is right. Changes with GW are played by greed. Unless we can show them the reasons that something will end with more money in their pockets, with little paperwork then its not happening.

However, I'm surprised that they're so resistant to change, at least from what we're getting from Nate. I though living rulebook meant that some changes could happen every year or so.

As well I thought that the HAs were put in custodial charge of the rules, and honestly a rebalance of all vessels would likely prove to be a money earner for GW. Isn't it their general philosophy, making everything that everyone liked in the previous edition/codex/whatnot kinda sucky, but everything everyone never bought great?

Look at the trend from 3rd to 5th edition 40k. First there was transports and large numbers of troops, GW then made this not work, making them tons of money with people fumbling for new solutions involving characters and different units. Then fifth comes along and everyone needs eighty billion transports that they never bought in 4th.


Now lets look at warmachine. They just updated their first edition. Jacks weren't worthwhile in that, so they made them necessary to take, and a little better. Same sort of philosophy. Now in their second edition units are more balanced, inspiring people to buy a lot of things that were useless.

With a balanced ruleset players are able to find multiple viable lists, and therefore are tempted to buy more vessels to fulfill these optional lists. Rather than just ignore a bunch because they are useless.

I may type up an essay/research on gothic players and lists at some point in the next two months. God knows I've written enough research proposals.

[Zelnik]

Guys... you really need to lay off the HA.

They are fighting tooth and nail to prevent GW from just canceling the line and ending the game, just like it did to Man'o'War, HeroQuest, and the other defunct specialist games.

The old guard is GONE, right now the company is owned by lawyers and marketing execs who want nothing but money.

[fracas]

and lets also lay off GW operating policies. it is a game company.



i think the popularity argument is reasonable. if people are buying and using it, leave it as is. yes it could be better. everything can.
if people aren't buying or using it, these are the items that should get priority to be fixed.
make sense from both a gaming point and a marketing point.

[Sigoroth]

See,  now that's useful. I have an idea. I'll make everyone here happy, then GW will stuff it in the round file and nobody wins. Everyone loses, but we gave it to the MAN so at least we can all feel good about losing.

The fact is that they're a bunch of greedy cunts that just want money. Well I say that we set the conditions under which we hand over our money. They're acting like banks. Taking our money and acting like we should be grateful for the privilege.

Really? Sig, we're trying to make something positive here. Like I said, 50% improvement that we KNOW will pass is better than 100% improvement that is destined to failure, because in the end that only leads to zero improvement.

No, it's not. If the people that they assign to make the game better come back at them and say "your mandate is unworkable, here's how to make the game better, ie, increase sales" then they've got the choice of following the will of their customers and making some money or packing it all up. Either way we, the customers, shouldn't supplicate our desires in the interests of GW making more money easily. We are the demand, they are the ones that fill the demand. To behave as if we should allow them to tell us what we can and can't demand is ABSURD. Oh yes master, whip me some more.

If you aren't even trying to compromise on absolutely anything you disagree with in this process, why are you even trying to make a difference?

Oh, and the profanity is certainly a great help as well. Thanks. I'm definitely the enemy here.

- Nate

The profanity is certainly helpful. It conveyed just how FUCKING pissed off I am about this LUDICROUS position. People should get angry more often. Stops you from getting walked all over. As for compromise, that is possible in a discussion with fellow consumers over what changes ought to be made. It is also possible to compromise due to feasibility concerns. We might all want product X but it could be impossible to produce it at a price we're willing to pay. What it is NOT possible to compromise is our voice. To be dismissed out of hand on the strength of some arbitrary decision ("oh sorry, we're not changing this part of the game ... just cuz") and money-grubbing mentality ("well obviously the only changes that need to be made are ones that increase our sales") is worse than galling. The fact that you lap it up and say "yessum" is appalling.

[lastspartacus]

and lets also lay off GW operating policies. it is a game company.

I used to buy this, before I discovered other game companies.  Yes, profit is key. But game companies are a bit special.  Fan support is their lifeblood.  After I discovered other companies, say, Privateer Press, ones that went out of their way to please even minute parts of their fanbase, because they were fans, let me realize how far GW had fallen, and I dropped my thousands-dollar investment got OUT.  Now I just do secondhand sales, specialist games.

I will not be too hard on the HA's though.  As ridiculous as I feel the current MO is, obviously they recieved it on instruction.  Hate GW, love the HA I say, because I feel they do really care about the game at least, right or wrong.
Ultimately, because you aren't running BFG tournies and the like, its all about the house rules and local play style.

So play the way your group likes to play, and count the 'official' rules as a hope of future development.  Thats what I do.

[Zelnik]

I will not condone GW's policies, not after their space marine movie (not the recent flop, the flop before that), LOTR, and the destruction of their specialist games line. They were in massive corporate debt for several years due to their terrible business decisions, and only now are out of debt on a business plan that (lets face it) has the effect of massive power creep.


We are trying to revitalize our passion. That's why we are getting angry about it.  Sig, your right, we should not cow down to corporate morons who never painted a miniature.  However, flybywire is right, we should not propose things that will get shot out of the sky.

[Plaxor]

I will not condone GW's policies, not after their space marine movie (not the recent flop, the flop before that), LOTR, and the destruction of their specialist games line. They were in massive corporate debt for several years due to their terrible business decisions, and only now are out of debt on a business plan that (lets face it) has the effect of massive power creep.

Power creep makes money. Convinces people to buy the next new army as GW appeals to the players who want nothing out of the game other than the satisfaction of winning. Played in ard boys this last year, made it to semi-finals with a sub-par witchunters army (containing no SOBS, but that's besides the point) then quit after I watched everyone get so frustrated and down-right angry about losing. Seemed dumb, I play any game to enjoy myself win or lose. I also was very bothered about that players have taken to playing 40k in the ard boys style every time, spamming some unit or another and taking only one list because it was determined to be the best. (I'm looking at you Razorwolves)

Look at SMs from their basic codex of the two marine flavors updated since you got cheaper better tactical marines, and then you got a list where you lost nothing from the original codex, but gained so much. Not to mention the Blood rage supposedly being a disadvantage, but all I see there is pure win.

We are trying to revitalize our passion. That's why we are getting angry about it.  Sig, your right, we should not cow down to corporate morons who never painted a miniature.  However, flybywire is right, we should not propose things that will get shot out of the sky.

I'm still amazed on the limitations here. I'm wondering what GW said/how they treated Nate to make him think that changes are so hard to pass.

[commander]

Well, I do appreciate the effort and work of the HA's. I don't like all of the results, but there is without doubt progress in the right direction.
I'm sure that I will create some house rules, using my own ideas and those that were vented here, to compensate for what cannot/may not be changed by the HA's. Nobody can tell me not to 

[Zelnik]

The answer to how they treated nate is simple, "Do this for no money, no credit, and no major changes, or we kill the game"

[BaronIveagh]

The answer to how they treated nate is simple, "Do this for no money, no credit, and no major changes, or we kill the game"

It beats the one they gave BB: 'If anyone else but us markets a mini for this game, we kill the game.' 


Frankly, I'm told that the only reason they agreed at all was the hope that improvements would move back stock.  According to some reports, they're preparing to end the specialist games in general anyway.

[flybywire-E2C]

The profanity is certainly helpful. It conveyed just how FUCKING pissed off I am about this LUDICROUS position. People should get angry more often. Stops you from getting walked all over. As for compromise, that is possible in a discussion with fellow consumers over what changes ought to be made. It is also possible to compromise due to feasibility concerns. We might all want product X but it could be impossible to produce it at a price we're willing to pay. What it is NOT possible to compromise is our voice. To be dismissed out of hand on the strength of some arbitrary decision ("oh sorry, we're not changing this part of the game ... just cuz") and money-grubbing mentality ("well obviously the only changes that need to be made are ones that increase our sales") is worse than galling. The fact that you lap it up and say "yessum" is appalling.

Hi Sig! Okay look. Right now what I'm REALLY fighting against is the game going away completely. They have no talent or resources at ALL directed toward preserving the game. Well so what if the game is in stasis? At least we can still keep playing it, right? Wrong. IF GW doesn't support the game anymore, they won't maintain the master molds. When those wear out, they won't renew them (a costly process), and then BFG goes the way of Spacefleet.

IF the game is going to reach a point of stasis, I at LEAST want it to get to that point with as complete and varied a ruleset as we can put on the street before it happens. Without getting into particulars, the situation is a bit more precarious than it seems, but at the same time there are unique possibilities in play from several different directions that may breathe some new life into the game, REAL life, like an opportunity to effect real changes to the fleets, core rule sets, everything. That time is NOT now and NOT yet, but it's coming.

Be angry, Sig, that’s fine. It's not helping any, but it's not really hurting either so keep it up- loud, off-kilter passion for the game  is certainly a LOT better than no passion at all.  However, I assure you we are not just lapping up what's happening and not doing anything about it- heck, that's the whole POINT of this project!!! We're simply NOT going to get all the changes we want right now, and forcing the issue isn't going to change any of that. We can either make slow and steady progress, or we can bitch and moan that progress isn't fast enough while in the meantime no progress happens at all.

I'm not addressing this anymore. We have too much to still get done, and we're running out of time.

- Nate

[flybywire-E2C]

Well, I do appreciate the effort and work of the HA's. I don't like all of the results, but there is without doubt progress in the right direction.
I'm sure that I will create some house rules, using my own ideas and those that were vented here, to compensate for what cannot/may not be changed by the HA's. Nobody can tell me not to 

Well, I can tell you not to, but who the heck says you have to listen to me?!? 

- Nate

[Plaxor]

I'm not addressing this anymore. We have too much to still get done, and we're running out of time.

- Nate

Sounds like you're running out of patience. You've said what you need to. Thnx Nate.

[Plaxor]

Right now what I'm REALLY fighting against is the game going away completely. They have no talent or resources at ALL directed toward preserving the game. Well so what if the game is in stasis? At least we can still keep playing it, right? Wrong. IF GW doesn't support the game anymore, they won't maintain the master molds. When those wear out, they won't renew them (a costly process), and then BFG goes the way of Spacefleet.

If we go out, lets go out with a fight.

[Lord Duggie The Mad]

Nate and the boys have been busting their gut putting all this stuff together for us to use, so thanks guys.  As a novice player, the new blast market rule simplifies things a bit for me and my opponent (trying to find a 40k buff in Japan is hard enough, try finding a BFG player - now there's the mark of an optimist) but we haven't really played long enough to appreciate the subtleties of the differences perhaps.

My only hope is that if this game is no longer going to be supported ( ); we at least get a head's up.  I'd be putting in a monster order in that case