BFG FAQ 2010 Fleet Specific Questions

[Zelnik]

WHOH.

How do you justify reducing the strength of the dragonship's battery? These ships are supposed to be Battlecruiser level/flagship craft. Remember that the Craftworld Eldar have NO battleships.

Leave it as it is. I play this fleet EXTENSIVELY and it works just fine.

Also, no ship in any eldar fleet has more then a st 6 torpedo, even the battleship only has LC4.

This fleet is easily one of the least... the LEAST that need this kind of modification.

[horizon]

Moox,
ordnance is being put on the table in the shooting phase.
moved in the ordnance phase.

[BlueDagger]

WHOH.

How do you justify reducing the strength of the dragonship's battery? These ships are supposed to be Battlecruiser level/flagship craft. Remember that the Craftworld Eldar have NO battleships.

Leave it as it is. I play this fleet EXTENSIVELY and it works just fine.

Also, no ship in any eldar fleet has more then a st 6 torpedo, even the battleship only has LC4.

This fleet is easily one of the least... the LEAST that need this kind of modification.

I think (hope) he meant to bump up the torp and lances not degrade the gun battery. As is there is no point in taking the lance or torpedo on the Dragonship since the AC and Batteries are so much more powerful.

Similar to taking lance escorts. Without the Pulsar Lance rule on escorts they are rather fail and no point in taking.

Er ok, just noticed the update on page one that Dragonship gun battery was taken down to a 12 and Torps upped to 8. The Dragonship is the only decent Carrier for CWE, so most folks are going to be taking it for the 4 launch bays not the torpedos, though 8 torps is a nice addition. Seems to be a nerf that is rather unjustified.

[Zelnik]

That's what I am saying.

Completely unnecessary. PLEASE remove that, unless you want to risk upsetting the balance for the entire fleet.

As far as I was aware, NO one was complaining about the effectiveness of the dragon ship. Lay off.

[russ_c]

Tyranid Spore Cyst Upgrade: Forgive any ignorance, as I'm not actually a Tyranid player, but...

Isn't +10points for a Spore Cyst upgrade really really cheap.  You get:

- +1 Shield to shields that already don't halve when crippled
- +1 Turret that does not halve when crippled
- The turret can fire at both types of ordnance

Just wondering what the general feeling is on this one since I don't have an informed suggestion.

What about lowering that Repulsive extra shield cost!?

Russ

[Commx]

Yes, they're very cheap. That is why everyone takes them if they have the chance. Of course, it is also part of the reason why "opponent's permission" on the use of Evolutions will virtually never happen...


Now, for a bit more FAQ:
1) The example provided for Fighta-Bommerz seems to be off, as it lists them as gaining two attacks each due to Turret Suppression. This conflicts with the clarification earlier which states that a Wave can gain no more Suppression attacks than the target has turrets.

2) Whilst on the subject, do Turrets reduce the Attack rolls of Bombers even if they chose to target Torpedoes instead of Attack Craft?

3) Tyranid Cruisers have the option of taking two Strength 4 Torpedo Markers which cannot be launched as a single salvo. How should they be placed upon launching?

4) Can more than one Radiation Burst occur per game? Unlike the Solar Flare it has no rule saying this is impossible.

[Zelnik]

I can answer the last part of your question.

Radiation bursts CAN happen every turn (and it makes plenty of sense when you think about it, being so close to a freaking STAR).

Seeing as solar flares specifically mention it happening only once, and radiation bursts did not, i interpreted it as it could happen every round on a roll of a 5+

[Zelnik]

Tyranid Spore Cyst Upgrade: Forgive any ignorance, as I'm not actually a Tyranid player, but...

Isn't +10points for a Spore Cyst upgrade really really cheap.  You get:

- +1 Shield to shields that already don't halve when crippled
- +1 Turret that does not halve when crippled
- The turret can fire at both types of ordnance

Just wondering what the general feeling is on this one since I don't have an informed suggestion.

What about lowering that Repulsive extra shield cost!?

Russ

Yes, it is cheap, however with the new rules, this won't be cropping up as often.

The repulsive upgrade is giving you a chance to make an incredible ship even better then before. Considering what your getting for 230-240 points, a 15 point shield upgrade should not phase you.. I will certainly take it!

[horizon]

Hi Zelnik, Ray,

Craftworld Eldar Dragonship (see opening post:
In the Eldar MMS house ruleset we have incorporated 12 batteries / 8 torps, this with left shift for batteries instead of always closing. This works perfectly fine (at a higher price!).

4 Pulsars would be too much. Really.

The Flame is their battleship equivalent.

And face it an Eldar vessel with 12 batteries & 8 torps or 3 Pulsar and 4 AC is still incredible at 260 points!
Compare to Eclipse: +1 Pulsar, +1 armour for +10points. Plus assault boat & aspect warrior options.

[BlueDagger]

Hi Zelnik, Ray,

Craftworld Eldar Dragonship (see opening post:
In the Eldar MMS house ruleset we have incorporated 12 batteries / 8 torps, this with left shift for batteries instead of always closing. This works perfectly fine (at a higher price!).

4 Pulsars would be too much. Really.

The Flame is their battleship equivalent.

And face it an Eldar vessel with 12 batteries & 8 torps or 3 Pulsar and 4 AC is still incredible at 260 points!
Compare to Eclipse: +1 Pulsar, +1 armour for +10points. Plus assault boat & aspect warrior options.

But this isn't a ruleset, it's what is considered an offical FAQ that most play by. I agree that 4 pulsars may be powerful, but 12 Battery is rather lackluster for the point cost. A Wraithship IMO is a terrible choice for AC so that leaves the Dragonship, so why would you want to take the torpedoes? A nerf of an already limited option fleet is rather uncalled for.

The Flame is NOT their Battleship equivalent because it's officially not theirs. So now your looking at 370 base for a FoA (minus 100 for the "typical" admiral that would normally be needed) which point for point isn't as good as a Void Stalker.

As it stands besides looks and fluff there is little reason to take CWE over Corsair and now the reasons are becoming more slim. if your going to nerf the Dragonship then give CWE the FoA since there is almost no reason for corsair to want it.

[Zelnik]

Horzion.  

I respect you as a fellow developer and a good person, but don't you DARE start using an opportunity to fix real problems with a game, that we all love and adore, as a green light to start making changes to make your own personal ruleset more viable.  People may like MMS, but in tournaments, and in casual play, people will not use them.

Just because the change 'benefits' MMS rules does not justify the change. MMS is not official and it probably never will be.

Don't touch the dragonship, Specialist games made it that way for a reason.

[russ_c]

Taking Tyranid Refits: The refits included in ‘Evolution of The Hive Mind’ may only be taken in campaigns unless your opponent agrees.

Hey Ray,

How does such a ruling work in a tournament setting?

Russ

[russ_c]

Mark of Slaanesh: Do the affects of multiple MoS stack? (i.e. If there are two ships with MoS within 15cm does the enemy vessel suffer a -4 LD?

Russ

[RayB HA]

Moox,

Thanks once again for you questions.


Zelnik,

The Dragonship options have to be balanced with one another, so 12 EWB’s = 3 Pulsars, 8 Devil torps = 4 ELB’s. 16 EWB’s was just too much, I suppose it might be arguable that 14 would be more appropriate but I’m pretty sure 12 will be the final number.
 I do realise this doesn’t work so well for the Shadow only having 12 instead of 16 but there is no reason to copy such a specific misjudgement. i.e. the dragonship having only 9WB’s!!!! But then again the Shadow is cheaper than the Ecplise.   


Russ c,

I’ve opened the question of increasing the cost of spore mines, and lowered the cost back to 15pts for the Repulsive.

Nids in tournaments wouldn’t be allowed to take them unless the tournament rules allowed it (that’s where the opponents permission bit comes in).


Commx,

Turret suppression is up to the number of turrets per bomber. If the fighta bommas didn’t have the inbuilt +3 turret suppression they would have to have 2 fighters each in the example given, so 4 FB’s and 8 fighters!

Nids only launch boarding torps, you could place them over one another.

Cheers,

RayB HA
 

[BlueDagger]

Since we are "fixing broken numbers"  then how about changing the Shadowhunter's lance to a pulsar lance? The hemlock and shadowhunter are nearly identical, but Shadowhunter's senselessly don't have pulsar lances.

Your nerfing an already underrated fleet that only has 3 ship choices without a costly upgrade.