BFG FAQ 2010 Fleet Specific Questions

[Sigoroth]

hey, i seem to recall a change to the Solaris, making it's WB 45cm and ignoring range shifts.. It's not in the faq.. Am i hallucinating or something?

That's MMS.

[Sigoroth]

Thanks for answering Nate.
I'm sorry I didn't bring this up earlier but it only came up recently (playing too much eldar I guess  ). In the FAQ (even the old one) it says:
"A ship or defense can never be on more than one special order at a time ..."
In my opinion this doesn't leave much room for interpretation and the section for BFI only mentions RO.
If a cruiser (20cm speed) on CTNH went on BFI after moving 5cm, could it still make 2 turns? And if it was squadroned, the other ship as well???

The way I see it is involuntary movement must be adhered to for the entire squadron as soon as that squadron has been activated. For example, a squadron of escorts go on AAF. The first is moved (therefore activating the squadron) but runs into torps so the squadron braces. Now the remaining ships, having been activated, must move straight ahead their maximum movement. Same goes for Burn Retros. However, consider CTNH. You successfully go on CTNH, move straight into a bomber wave and brace. You don't get your second turn because it is not mandatory, it is voluntary.

Similarly if, in the shooting phase, you have a locked on vessel firing some of its weaponry at a nearby ship, which then explodes and forces you to brace, you do not get the benefit of LO for the remainder of your fire. This is not official of course, merely a way of looking at it.

[Zelnik]

I agree with sig. You fired the engines, your in for the ride one way or another. If you decide to buckle your seat belts, it doesn't change the fact that the ship is traveling at ludicrous speed. 

[Zelnik]

hey, i seem to recall a change to the Solaris, making it's WB 45cm and ignoring range shifts.. It's not in the faq.. Am i hallucinating or something?

That's MMS.

Ahem.


I SEE BACON IN THE WINDOW!! THE COLORS!!!

[Sigoroth]

Ahem.


I SEE BACON IN THE WINDOW!! THE COLORS!!!

Bacon!?! Where!? 

[lastspartacus]

I understand that chaos has easily available assault boats through dreadclaws.  But why the free boarding torps?  I suppose this fits their raider theme?

What I really don't understand is the +1 chaos gets to boarding.  Chaos is by far my primary and most played fleet, but I disagree with them being more hardcore than IN crews.

[Innocent]

Regarding the Tyranid FAQ:

"You MUST take 6 Escort Drones for each hive ship in the fleet"

I can't believe that is in the FAQ.

My gripe with this is that it completely destroys the variety in the Tyranid fleet list. It basically makes the Hiveship at least 90 points more expensive, and forces you to take the same generic Drones at the detriment of cool things like Vanguards, Krakens and Cruisers.

It is also particularily crippling when you consider the only real restriction in the Nid fleet list: only 2 Cruisers per Hiveship. 1 Hiveship + 2 Cruisers is close to 500 points, not including escort drones. Meaning that at 1000 points you are either stuck with 1 Hiveship - 2 Cruisers and 500 points of escorts (!) or 2 Hiveships, 12 Drones and virtually no Cruisers.

Basically what I am saying is that if the aim was to restrict the number of Hiveships, this is crippling because at 1000 points you cannot replace the loss of a Hiveship with a couple of Cruisers.

Not mentioning that Krakens and Vanguards (a very interesting unit for tactical play: his marker-light ability coupled with the instinctive behaviour table makes for some real interesting play as you try to maneuvre these guys close to your target, not to mention having one around is the only way to target ordnance waves) will also get the shaft at 1000 points in favour of boring slow Drones.

The Hiveship is key to the Tyranid list: it unlocks cruisers, provides synapse, provides practically the only source of AC (which is ESSENTIAL to Nids), and only source of long range firepower. I find it hard as it is to make a balanced and flexible list at 1000 points without using refits, but the Drone thing just ruins it.

If you want people to take more escorts over Hiveships, make that "you must take 6 escorts (any type) for each hiveship in the fleet". That will make more balanced lists without destroying the variety in the Nid list. This would make a whole lot more sense too with regards to the initial wording in Armada: it seems they wanted people to take between 6 and 12 escorts per Hiveships, which would be similar to the restriction on Cruisers (i.e. you need Hiveships to unlock the rest of your army; makes sense fluff wise too).

Rant off

That said I really appreciate all the work that's been done here, especially in the Nid list which is patchy as hell (missing costs in the fleet list, missing descriptions, confusing L/F/R options etc... and I'm not even going to get started on the "Are refits legal?" thing )

[horizon]

I like the must take 6 drones rule.

[lastspartacus]

Its very fluffy.  You should take more, but its a minimum

And...drones are really good!

[Vaaish]

I don't particularly mind it. My first read through missed that it was limited to just the escort drones instead of 6 escorts total. I agree it will likely see some upsets to the Nid list, but I can't say it will be particularly bad since you won't be spending 60 points on refits for each hive ship. If you take the bioplasma discharge you are only really spending around 30 points extra per hive ship for the escorts so it shouldn't greatly change anything except those lists that took only uber hive ships by replacing the spores and carapace with drones. 

[Zhukov]

I'm with Innocent on this one. I think this rule kinda nerfs a lot of the advantages of the Tyranid fleet.

-Zhukov

[Innocent]

So it's a tradeoff between a hiveship and more escorts then? *grumble grumble* time to get the hobby knife and murder some Hormagants again

Reading through it again I can see the benefits, especially if I can have 18 escorts for a Hive ship, but it is going to change the list for sure in 1000pnts games. Time will tell.

Oh and I missed the entry about the -1ld when attempting to ignore closer targets for hiveships with drones, a nice boost I guess

[lastspartacus]

What advantages Zuk?  If a few, incredibly powerful ships is a tyranid advantage, I'd say they kinda messed up on the feel in the first place.

[Innocent]

How about:
- Loss of synapse
- Loss of AC
- and most importantly: loss of mobility via the only fast and maneuvrable ships in the fleet: Krakens and Vanguards.

Again, this will simply sacrifice interesting units like the kraken and vanguards in favour of slow short range drones.

Also, another problem I forsee with the drones is that it is overkill. 6 drones at 1000 points is more than enough. Who needs 12 drones, i.e. 48str weapons batteries or 24 shield ignoring lances? half that number is more than enough to deal with anything that comes within their range. This rule basically forces us to put points were they are not needed, resulting in restricting and potentially boring lists.

I'll definitely give the "new" list a try. But playing around with the fleet options I find it extremely restricting. Again this is at 1000points and it is partly due to the bizarre costing values in the Tyranid fleet list (no intermediate i.e. 200ish point ships, and no carrier options apart from the Hiveship) coupled to the cruiser restrictions. But I think tampering with this already complex balance is risky. We will see.

What I'd like to know is what motivated the Drones choice over Krakens or Vanguards?

[Vaaish]

Innocent: I don't think this is quite true. How many points did you previously spend on refits for your ships in your nid lists? If you were bulking out your Hive Ships the odds are your list will trade those refits for most of the required escorts leaving you with a similar number of points to take vanguard and kraken.