BFG FAQ 2010 Fleet Specific Questions

[Sigoroth]

I do too, but lets remember, it's difficult to create a super-weapon and have a super-defense that can compensate for it.  The Warp cannon literally TEARS REALITY, and the sensors on the blackstone are eldar in origin, so it's reasonable to say that they could cut through holofields without issue.  no defense is perfect.

When it comes to the necrons... well.. i would say it reduces their save to 4+

Other races brace for impact by manning repair stations, dropping bulkheads, etc. Necrons put more energy into their hull. Different ways of bracing, hence the Necrons get a different brace save. Since the BSF should bypass Necron defences normally then they should also bypass them when braced. Also, the C'tan and Necrontyr have no defence against the Warp. They have no presence in it. It is anethema to them. Hence their grand plan to try to seal off reality from the warp.

Since Eldar sensors don't negate holofields I don't see why the ABSF would. Particularly as holofields would have been developed after the ABSF was. How could its design take into account something that hadn't been invented yet? Why would the Eldar not make their holofields work against it? They did know all about it after all. Even if holofields were around at the time of its construction, why would Vaul have made it work against Eldar defences?

Is it really Eldar in origin?  I thought the Old Ones had a hand in it.  But either way, they are c'tan defense platforms.  Guns that use warp energy.
Doesn't really mean they are anti-necron ships.  I dont really care either way, I doubt ill ever come up against one with necrons.

However, fun ctan rules would be great to have, then put a blackstone in the other fleet

BFG is the real scale that Ctan belong on, or an Epic supermodel.

It was made by Vaul, the Eldar forge god specifically to beat the crap outta Necrons. We're talking before the Eldar rise to power here, where any ships they had were primitive compared to human standards. Whole flotillas of mixed race ships would fall to the Necrons. They are not C'tan defence platforms. C'tan = Necron gods. ABSF = Eldar gods.

[Zelnik]

Guys, i know the fluff says so, but i am more worried about balance.. One of the few things that has never been budged in the games before is the benefit of Brace for impact.  Removing that entirely is DANGEROUS.  I suggest you instead reduce the 2+save to 4+, which is PLENTY bad for the numerically challenged necron fleet as it is.

[horizon]

Do you really think it is unbalancing that something like an activated blackstone fortress only available to Chaos being a mayor point sink gets a better shot at Necrons?

This is such a rare happening in games I cannot see it as dangerous at all.

And yes, Necrons may be numerically challenged the one battle they will outnumber the opponent is when the opponent deploys such an activated blackstone fortress.

[Sigoroth]

Indeed, and also the ABSF can't go on LO.

[Sigoroth]

The Ad Mech rules need some clearing up, as has no doubt already been pointed out in this 23 page long thread. In this particular case I'm referring to the rather silly rules covering the "random" refit combined with an Archmagos. In the leadership rules it says that you can pick your refit if you roll a 6 unless there is an Archmagos Veneratus on board. So if I have an Archmagos Explorator I'm fine according to that rule.

Of course, later on it says that the benefit that the Archmagos brings (so both kinds) cannot be combined with a refit selected because it rolled a 6 for leadership. But then it says meaning that a ship will never have more than two refits from the Mechanicus Gifts table which is absolutely loony tunes. There's nothing that suggests that there'd ever be more than 2.

And from the first page of this thread:

Adeptus Mechanicus Refits: When a 6 is rolled on the leadership table you may pick your refit instead rolling for it randomly, you don’t get an extra one. If an Archmagos is bought for a ship you do not roll on the leadership table for this ship and can therefore not pick your ships random refit if a 6 is rolled, unless it is the same one picked by the Archmagos. The Archmagos’ ship only has two refits.

Which is just wrong. You roll leadership before determining where you're going to place your FC. So you do roll leadership for the ship which gets the Archmagos.

The upshot of all this is that out of all 3 places where this rule is written it is not right in any of them. We all get the point, particularly due to all the damn reiterations, but it would help if you could write the rule clearly for once.

Now, with criticism of your (HAs) inability to write anything legible out of the way, I'd like to move on to criticism of the actual rule. Let's have a look at how it stands as it is now. Chuck an Archmagos on ship, get whatever refit you want. Roll for random refit, if you double up you get to choose. So 1 in 3 chance of getting what you want for your second refit. Now, let's have a look at what would happen if we got rid of all the rules governing this interaction and simply allowed the player to choose their FC's refit after the random roll.

Roll Ld for fleet. Either place FC on a random refit ship or one that has rolled a 6. In former case you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting the 2nd refit you want (not OP). In the latter case you get both refits you want but will likely end up reducing the ships leadership to 8 (not OP) because who the hell would take the Veneratus? If you do take the Veneratus and then go and put it on a ship that rolled 6 for leadership then you're just paying 100 points for the refit really (not OP). If you're determined to put your FC on a specific ship regardless of the leadership rolled then you will have a 4 in 9 chance of getting both refits you want (not OP). So, since none of these results are overpowered or terribly abusable then why not just cut down all the rules? It should read:

An Archmagos may select 1 refit from the Mechanicus Gift table. This refit is in addition to, and selected after, the one rolled for randomly

No really poorly written rule clarifications that add nothing to the game.

[horizon]

Yeah, somewhere in this thread I pointed at the fact that Ld is rolled for fleet commander placement in regards to that rule.

And, indeed, the intention is clear, the wording unnecessary violent.

In my AdMech fleet I roll Ld for the vessels. If my Retribution rolls a 6 I will place my ArchMagon on a less expensive ship, if the the Retribution rolls something else I add the Magos. And ofcourse, take the AWR upgrade, I mean, it is the best and needed on the Retribution.

In your italic rule suggestion you are forgoing the '6' on the dice for leadership? Plus I would add for clarity that no refit can be taken twice. This is obscured as well in the rules.

[lastspartacus]

Hell, as pricy as admech are I say make a way for them to just pick their poison
But maybe part of the fun is the random tech?

Another complaint.  The Ark Mechanicus should be capable of having 3 refits, due to its specialness.  If I understand it correctly, it comes with 2, and adding a Magos does nothing. (?!)

[horizon]

Not true, the Archmagos Veneratus is a must choice for the Ark thus it already has it incorporated.

I advocate dropping the needed ArchMagos (and take away 1 refit as well).

[lastspartacus]

Already incorporated, do you mean it already has one at the points listed for the ship?

Otherwise its a 515 point ship with no third refit 0.o

[horizon]

Yeah, in fact it is a 515point ship with 2 refits.
I mean the Emperor would be, ehm from the head, 500pts with a Veneratus and 2 refits.

[lastspartacus]

Looking at what that battleship can accomplish, 515 seems a bit, a lot, ludicrous.

[Sigoroth]

In your italic rule suggestion you are forgoing the '6' on the dice for leadership? Plus I would add for clarity that no refit can be taken twice. This is obscured as well in the rules.

No, that rule is in the leadership rules, the one I propose would be under the FC entry. So they would just interact as usual. Perhaps replace the "randomly" with "normally". Maybe an example to illustrate the interaction and a disclaimer adding you can't take the same refit twice.

[Zelnik]

Are we talking about the Arc? Good lord, it's the third best battleship in the game. It's pricing is quite appropriate considering it's LD, weaponry and upgrades. 

Why would you take it instead of an emperor? because it has better hitting and staying power then an emperor! 6+ armor, nova cannon, and stupid huge firepower.

[horizon]

Heya,
I think it is outedged by the AdMech Retribution with a regular Magos. In an elite fleet which is outnumbered you can use every points you can spare.

[Sigoroth]

Heya,
I think it is outedged by the AdMech Retribution with a regular Magos. In an elite fleet which is outnumbered you can use every points you can spare.

Ya, well assuming the Oberon fix makes it to officialdom then I'd rather an AdMech Oberon with basic leader. Ld 9, 4 AC, 6 turrets, 2L@60cm + 16WB@60cm with AWR as well as another upgrade all for 75 pts less than that overpriced Ark. Comes off fairly well against the Retribution too. Loses out on a slightly superior lance but picks up 4 left shifted (ie, range ignoring) WBs which is about even. Has an extra turret, +1 Ld and 4 AC. The Ret can close of course, using torps and eventually breaking the enemy line, but the Oberon will be sitting back and shooting all the while the Ret is on approach. Not bad for +10 pts. Both ships work though (or will), unlike the Ark.