BFG FAQ 2010 Fleet Specific Questions

[Zelnik]

How should i put this...

I have fought and beaten tyranid evolved fleets.  I can SAFELY say that they are a righteous pain in the ass, and my loss ratio well outstrips my victory ratio.

Honestly the best way to deal with this is to simply restrict their use to campaigns.

[russ_c]

Uhg, got us off topic again.  Getting back to actual rules clarifications...

Imperial Power Ram: It's only mentioned in the Gothic Sector list, can it be taken in all fleet list? Also, can you clarify that it can only be taken by +6 prow ships without a Nova Cannon.

Blastmarkers and Moving Away: I've also noticed that many new players are confused about instantly regaining shields when moving away from a Blast Marker.  Perhaps this is caused by the current entry in the 2007 FAQ:

"A vessel is considered to be moving through blast markers even if it is moving away from blast markers it is in contact with at the beginning of the movement phase..."

Explorer Bor'kan Gravitic Launchers:  I just thought I'd point out that the fire arc says "-" and not "Front"

You're a trooper Ray!

Russ

[Vaaish]

Russ... the power ram is quite clear in its wording that you have to have a 6+ prow and mount a prow ram. A NC is not a prow ram therefore it can't get a power ram. I'd also wager it's intentional that the power ram doesn't appear in other lists just like the Dominator doesn't or the Veteran captains aren't available to every list.

[russ_c]

I understand that a vessel with a NC can't take a power ram, but...

It's obviously not clear that any other vessel can since this question comes up from people.  The reason why there is confusion by new BFGers is the rule says a ship with a "+6 prow and a prow ram".  That is the only place in the entire rule set the word prow ram is used.  When I was new I searched everywhere for what a prow ram is thinking it was something more specific then "a +6 prow without a nova cannon".  What is never stated is that a ship that doesn't have a nova cannon is considered to have a prow ram.

One can assume by looking at pictures, but not everyone does.  Simply changing the sentence to "a +6 prow without a Nova Cannon" clears this up without any ambiguity.

I still request for the rewording to be included in the FAQ.

Russ

[Zelnik]

Interestingly enough the rules say Imperial Capitol ships with a 6+ armor that mount a prow ram may have a powered ram for 5 points.. i have used this in every IN fleet, i see no reason NOT to allow it in the other IN fleets.

[Vaaish]

I don't think it would be an issue to allow other IN fleets access to it given the rarity that the upgrade appears and the small percentage of the time it actually comes into play, but I would argue that you simply having used it in every IN fleet is perhaps the poorest reason why other lists should have access to it. The rules for the power ram are not in any general section on refits nor is it listed anywhere except on the fleet list page for the gothic sector fleet. Within the context of that fleet it allows them to be taken and provide flavor to the list. Just as you cannot take veteran captains which provide flavor to the bastion fleet lists in an armageddon fleet list because they are not listed there, I see no reason prow rams would be allowed since they are not offered as an option in any of the other fleet lists outside of the Gothic list.

[Commx]

Well, time to go through the PDF's again and make up some extra questions and - as it seems we're now 'modifying' fleets a bit as well - a few remarks...

1) Ramilies Starfort: If this is to be considered as a cluster of four Defences in base contact with each other (something you mentioned in relation to Boarding by a Space Hulk) does that mean they are capable of Massing Turrets together for a maximum of seven?
2) Escort Carriers: May these use the Orbital Mines upgrade? The first line of the Orbital Mines entry says 'Any ship', but after that it mentions 'only Cruisers' (and not Battleships).
3) Although they are apparently intended for the Convoy scenario, is there any reason players should not be allowed to use the alternate freighters if they wish to spend the points for them?
4) Special Torpedoes: Could you please do something about either the randomness or the prohibitive cost (or preferably both?) As it stands, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for any sane individual to purchase them.
5) Orbital Mines: To be honest, these could do with a speed increase to 15cm. Currently many capital ships and virtually every escort can easily outrun them so have no reason to worry about triggering Minefields and the such.
6) If an Adeptus Mechanicus vessel tests to fire at a Hulk and fails, may it still attack an enemy that turn? If so, may it take a new Leadership test to target an enemy other than the closest?
7) The Adeptus Mechanicus Leadership table mentions that you may choose a Refit if you roll a six. Is this in addition to the random one? The sentence is ambiguous, but the notes under the Archmagos entry seem to imply that it is (otherwise the 'thus no more than two Refits' statement is meaningless, as you would still have only two Refits if you did place your Archmagos aboard a ship that rolled a six).
8] Do Adeptus Mechanicus Escorts still gain the +1 Turret like the capital ships, or is this considered part of the 'Refit Table' they do not use?


Well, that's all I can come up with right now. Until we meet again!

[Zelnik]

Here is a question

Endeavor, Edurence, Defiant.

Should they be upgraded with the 6+ armored prow?


Also on the power ram spike.

It's a pretty simple upgrade, with limited use, and there is NO reason why other imperial fleets should not get it. Until someone gives me a good reason why this simple little upgrade, which every imperial fleet has the requirements for (ram spikes and a 6+ prow) should not get it?

Frankly i always viewed it's omission as a typo.

[Vaaish]

Zelnik, it's not in the other fleet lists. Whether or not this is a typo that's a rock solid reason for why they don't get it. If HA want's to allow it in the other lists I've no problem with it, but as it stands your argument holds just as much water as me saying I think the dominator should be in every list and I view its omission as a typo since it can be taken in the gothic list and I can take cruisers in every other IN list.

[horizon]

Hi Commx,
some admech questions: nice.

5) No way.. mines are mean lean strong already.
7) You roll Ld for all vessels and then you place the Magos.
Every ship takes 1 Gift. If you roll a 6 on the dice for LD you may choose that 1 gift. If you have the Magos he takes one additional Gift with him. That's the way I read it.
8 ) It is written a bit too wieldy but no they do not get an extra turret.

[Zelnik]

I beg to differ on your statement. The dominator is a ship.

The power ram is a 5 point upgrade... that is a huge difference, thanks.

[Vaaish]

Ok then, we can use the veteran captains. by your reasoning I should be allowed to take them in any fleet, not just the bastion list. Honestly, it doesn't matter what the points were or are for something, the point is the same that if the option isn't listed globally or isn't in the list regardless of how few points it is, you can't take it in the list.

[Zelnik]

...Vaaish now your just being unreasonable.

I would agree with the veteran captian idea... IF every imperial fleet had to roll 2d6 and pick the lowest LD.

The difference here is that the rule relies on a bit in the pack. The description of Battlefleet Cadia is very specific.


Again, It just seems logical and reasonable that since the BIT is universal in all imperial fleets... why not the upgrade?

[Don Gusto]

Activated Blackstone Fortress
Do the warp cannons also bypass BFI? That would give the 750 points a bit more punch.

Ork Fighta Bommas
I'm confused by the second paragraph. What is meant by 'fighter-support'? To use them as fighters against cap?

[Commx]

Hi Commx,
some admech questions: nice.

Hello there Horizon,
Just weeding through every official PDF I have for potential issues, so they were bound to come up eventually.

5) No way.. mines are mean lean strong already.

I agree they are rather potent when they get to attack, well, anything. However, their current speed is making it rather unlikely that they will be capable of actually catching anything to deal said damage. Heck, I wouldn't actually mind halving their firepower for a five centimetre speed boost. That would make them more of a 'reliable floating nuisance' than the 'easily avoidable yet lethal doom orb' they are now.

7) You roll Ld for all vessels and then you place the Magos.
Every ship takes 1 Gift. If you roll a 6 on the dice for LD you may choose that 1 gift. If you have the Magos he takes one additional Gift with him. That's the way I read it.

That is indeed one way to read it, but as I mentioned in my previous post, this interpretation renders the sentences about combining the effects from rolling a six for LD and having an Archmagos meaningless. As such a sentence is present in both paragraphs, I find it hard to believe this is a typo. Under the interpretation that a the chosen Refit is an additional one they do make sense, as they prevent a ship from having three Refits - the standard one, one from the Archmagos, and one from rolling a six.

8 ) It is written a bit too wieldy but no they do not get an extra turret.

I agree this is probably the intent considering the Escorts do not cost more points than in any other fleet, but the text specifically mentions the table itself by name, not the Gifts of the Omnissiah rules it is part of.