Spaceship dimensions project

[Rolz]

Hello guys. I've been thinking on putting together a giant pic with all (or most) of 40k ships in scale for my blog. It was done before, but the author missed a lot of ships and put a lot of fan-made ones, so I though I can do better.

For this project I need lengths of spaceships in question. A lot of those can be found in FFG's Rogue Trader roleplaying game, but it only covers a limited amount of them. So I thought to get the ship sizes by measuring miniature sizes and calculating using the data from ships that can be found both in BFG and a Rogue Trader. That would also give me an answer to a question of the scale in which BFG miniatures are made, which is also a good thing.

I do have some BFG miniatures, but I obviously need help of guys who own the ones I don't. So I ask you to measure and post lengths of miniatures listed below, if it is not too much trouble. And if you can google some photos of miniatures next to a ruler, that would also be useful.

So here is the list of all BFG ships known to me and my progress on determining their size so far:

IMPERIAL NAVY:
Emperor-class Battleship, Retribution-class Battleship (hull is the same) - no data
Apocalypse-class Battleship, Oberon-class Battleship (hull is the same) - no data
Vengeance-class Grand Cruiser, Avenger-class Grand Cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 7.5km), Exorcist-class Grand Cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 7.3km) (hull is the same) - no data
Armageddon-class Battlecruiser (Rogue Trader length = 5km) - no data
Mars-class Battlecruiser (Rogue Trader length = 5.4km), Overlord-class Battlecruiser (Rogue Trader length = 5.3km), Lunar-class Cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 5km), Tyrant-class Cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 5km), Dominator-class Cruiser, Gothic-class Cruiser, Dictator-class Cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 5.1km) (hull is the same) - miniature owned, length = 98мм   
Dauntless-class Light cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 4.5km) - no data
Endeavour-class Light cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 3.8km), Endurance-class Light cruiser, Defiance-class Light cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 3.8km) (hull is the same) - no data
Sword-class Frigate (Rogue Trader length = 1.6km), Firestorm-class Frigate (hull is the same) - no data
Cobra-class Destroyer (Rogue Trader length = 1.5km) - no data
Falchion-class Escort - no data
Orbital Defences - Laser Platform - no data
Orbital Defences - Torpedo Launcher - no data
Orbital Defences - Weapons Platform - no data
Orbital Defences - Mine - no data
Transport (Rogue Trader length = 2.8km) - miniature owned, length = 39мм
System Ship - no data
Space Station - no data
Blackstone Fortress - no data
Ramilies-class Star Fort - no data

ASTARTES CHAPTERS:
Battle barge - no data
Strike Cruiser - miniature owned, length = 62мм   
Grey Knight Strike Cruiser (Forge World miniature) - no data
Hunter-class Destroyer - no data
Gladius-class Frigate - no data
Nova-class Frigate - no data

RAIDERS & CHAOS:
Planet Killer - no data
Despoiler-class Battleship, Desolator-class Battleship (hull is the same) - no data
Repulsive-class Grand Cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 7.4km) - no data
Styx-class Heay Cruiser, Hades-class Heay Cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 5.2km), Acheron-class Heay Cruiser, Devastation-class Cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 5km), Murder-class Cruiser, Carnage-class Cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 5km), Slaughter-class Cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 5km) (hull is the same) - no data
Idolator-class Raider - no data
Infidel-class Raider (Rogue Trader length = 1.5km) - no data
Iconoclast-class Destroyer (Rogue Trader length = 1.3km) - no data
Transport (Rogue Trader length = 2km) - no data

ELDAR OF ALL TYPES:
Void Stalker-class Battleship - no data
Shadow-class Cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 4.7km) - no data
Eclipse-class Cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 4.7km) - no data
Aurora-class Light cruiser (Rogue Trader length = 3.4km), Solaris-class Light cruiser (hull is the same) - no data
Hellebore-class Frigate (Rogue Trader length = 1.8km) - no data
Aconite-class Frigate (Rogue Trader length = 1.5km) - no data
Nightshade-class Destroyer (Rogue Trader length = 1.3km) - no data
Hemlock-class Destroyer (Rogue Trader length = 1.4km) - no data
Dragonship (Rogue Trader length = 4.5-5.5km) - no data
Wraithship (Rogue Trader length = 3km) - no data
Torture-class Cruiser - no data
Corsair-class Escort - no data

ORKS:
Dethdeala Battleship - no data
Slamblasta Battleship - no data
(Rogue Trader length =11 km)
Kill Kroozer - miniature owned, length = 68мм
Terror Ship - no data
(Rogue Trader length = around 4.5km)
Onslaught Attack Ship - miniature owned, length = 39мм
Savage Gunship - miniature owned, length = 40мм
Ravager Attack Ship - miniature owned, length = 40мм
(Rogue Trader length = around 1.5km)
Brute Ram Ship (Rogue Trader length = 1.1km) - miniature owned, length = 31мм

NECRONS:
Cairn-class Tombship - no data
Scythe-class Harvest Ship - no data
Shroud-class Light Cruiser - no data
Jackal-class Raider - no data
Dirge-class Raider - no data

TYRANIDS:
Hive Ship - no data
Cruiser - no data
Vanguard Drone Ship - no data
Escort Drone Ship - no data

TAU EMPIRE:
O'Res El'Leath (Custodian) -class Carrier (Forge World miniature) - no data
Kir'Shasvre (Castellan) -class Heavy escort (Forge World miniature) - no data
Lar'Shi'Vre (Protector) -class Warship (Forge World miniature) - no data
Il'Porrui (Emissary) -class Envoy ship (Forge World miniature) - no data
Transport (Forge World miniature) - no data
Security orbital (Forge World miniature) - no data
Air caste orbital city (Forge World miniature) - no data
Kroot Warsphere (Rogue Trader length = around 9km) - no data

So if anyone can help with miniature sizes - don't hesitate to contact me. 

[Cneo]

I think Imperial Battleships are between 7,5-8 km. long.

[Malika]

[Pix]

I will say in general models are around :
Battlecruisers ≈ 120/130 mm

Grand Cruiser ≈ 100/110 mm (i guess ... i don't have any model)
Cruiser ≈ 80/90 mm (without antennas and other small pieces)
Light cruiser ≈ 60/70 mm

Frigate ≈ 40 mm
Destroyer ≈ 30 mm

The picture posted by Malika is interesting. It's saying in the right corner : All ships shown are constant scale
In the real book the cobra is around 3 cm, the barge 16 cm, the Tribune 17 cm and the Iron Brood 35 cm....

[Rolz]

2Malika - seen it somewhere, but it is very helphul, will surely include these giants.

I really want this to be done right, so I'm really only after actual measurements of specific miniatures, not approximations. So if you have any solid numbers, I'll be happy to see them.

[timdp]

Here are a few. First number is the length of the BFG model. Second number is the length of the the ship in "real" life. Scale is 1:56000.
Lengths do not include things sticking off the prow (Nova Cannons, prow rams and other weapons).
A lot of the lengths in the Rogue Trader RPG books are pretty random with no supporting documentation.

Previous scale discussion of the ship image (above) from THE HORUS HERESY BOOK THREE - EXTERMINATION is here: http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=6209.0

mm/ Meters
Imperial Fleet
Sword 49.25/ 2758
Firestorm 48.33/ 2706
Falchion 49/ 2744
Cobra 31.75 / 1778

Cruiser 91.04/ 5098
Grand Cruiser 125.2 / 7011
Battleship 126.43/ 7080

Space Marines
Hunter 26.83/ 1502
Galdius 40.5/ 2268
Nova 39.55/ 2215

Strike Cruiser 67.38/ 3773

Battle Barge 128.15/ 7176


Chaos
Iconoclast 28.8/ 1613
Infidel 39.66/ 2221
Idolator 39.55/ 2215

Pestilans 85.5/ 4788

Cruiser 94.5/ 5292

Repulsive 95.5/ 5348
Grand Cruiser 125.2/ 7011

Desolator 123.4/ 6910
Despoiler 117.6/ 6586

[Rolz]

Interesting. But what is the source for scale and length in meters?

[timdp]

Interesting. But what is the source for scale and length in meters?

Length in meters = BFG model length in mm x 56 = real world length in meters.

Most recent scale info we have is the retcon that Imperial cruisers are now 5 km long, compared to the original 3 km long. Imperial cruisers are 3.5" long which is very close to 1:56000.

Original: Cruisers 3km long
1" = .86 km = 1:33858 scale


Moving on to the "new" scale...
In the FFG Rogue Trader books an Imperial cruiser is roughly 5km long.

1" = 1.4285714 km = 1:56243 scale, rounded to 1:56000
.70" = 1km

Original thread: http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=5742.msg48572#msg48572

Tim

[horizon]

Back in the days Andy Chambers stated the models were not in scale. Andy did work on rogue trader so those measurements in there are more or less sanctioned by the original designer.

I once did measurements on the forgeworld tau vessels using the sizes of the Manta in 40k. Sizes ended up being in line with what one expect. I shall see if i can find them again.

[Rolz]

That would be helpful. And if you could pinpoint the source of the exact quote from Chambers, that would be nice too.

[horizon]

Here is a tidbit:

Andy Chambers:
http://www.wolfedengames.com/battlefleetgothic/scale.htm

Scale in Battlefleet Gothic
by Andy Chambers

I'm not sure if I've talked about scale before but here goes anyway. BFG works around an approximate scale of 1cm=1000KM for the planets and other tabletop features. Obviously this means the ship models are massively out of scale, an Imperial cruiser is NOT 9000KM+ long! The scale is basically there as a rule of thumb and I didn't worry about it too much when it came down to setting weapon ranges, ship speeds and so on. These were all done to create the right impression of distance on the tabletop. For example 60cm 'feels' like a long way and 30cm doesn't, the weapon ranges aren't defined by some pseudo-science calaculation of the energy dissipation rate of lasers (fairly obviously ) but to create an interaction between the (massively out of scale) models on the tabletop.

The more interesting question is perhaps how long is a turn, and that one I don't know the answer too - I'd guess somewhere between 15 minutes and an hour (quite likely telescoping so that at long range a turn is an hour but by the time you're within 15 cm its 15 minutes). This would make an attack craft capable of moving 30cm per ordnance phase capable of doing approximately 30-120,000 km/h. I've got no idea if this is realistic for starfighter speeds, or unfeasibly fast, incredibly slow or what , perhaps someone on the list could enlighten us all on this front (don't just tell us what it says it the Star Wars technical manual though!).

[timdp]

Here is a tidbit:

Scale in Battlefleet Gothic
by Andy Chambers

Hmmm, discussion about how the models are not in scale with the tabletop (which is he case with pretty much every tabletop miniatures game), but I see NOTHING about the ships not being in scale with each other.

[Pix]

Thanks for all the accurate data !
And i do agree with timdp about the scale between ships, but the precisions from Andy Chambers are very interesting !

[Rolz]

Thanks a lot for this quote. I stand with other guys so I will continue the project with the assumption that the ships are in scale with each other. We'll see if the measurements will prove otherwise.

Any measurements are still welcome.