(Second) Best Magic?

[robbohammer13]

Hi everyone,

Let's just say hypothetically that High Elves have the most powerful magic in Warmaster because of their added ability. (If they're not, feel free to correct me on that.) 

So, then which army has the second best magic and why? Also, this would include any of the other official and unofficial/ experimental rules from the Warmaster Annuals.

I suppose have a vested interest in asking because I own 5 armies (not that it's an important factor in your choice for 2nd best, I'd just like to know the group's ideas/opinions on this topic).

[Time of Madness]

I'd say Orcs and goblins because of the amount of wizards you can take. Some of their spells are pretty great as well!

Time of Madness

[robbohammer13]

Very True, Time of Madness. Double wizards! I realize firsthand how the Orcs have many characters and how that could help them, but I guess I didn't quite consider that regarding wizards.

I could also see how it could arguably be Undead or Vampire Counts taking the second best category, with the spell to raise new units.

[Draccan]

Undeads have 2 wizards as well pr. 1000 points. And agree that summoning can be quite good.
I would also vote for Chaos as the Anger of the Gods spell can be powerful when you move terrorcausing things close to the enemy and a wizard with this spell active, -2 command can be crippling for many armies...

Araby is interesting with their Mirage spell...

[Stormwind]

I would say orcs have the most powerful magic because of how stupidly cheap and numerous their magic users are.

Gerroff!!! and Gotcha! make me want to rage quit sometimes.  If you're playing against a 2000 point army, that means he's going to have FOUR magic users to your two, and can concentrate them on one flank to cause merry hell.

[robbohammer13]

Thanks for the replies! I guess I chose wisely as Orcs are my largest WM army. Great insights, thanks.

[jchaos79]

I see the following spell categories (in a raw way)

1 Ofensive spell (distance/bolt)
1 Ofensive spell (touch)
1 Defensive spell
1 movement spell

Empire has
1x Ofensive spell (distance/bolt)
2x Movement spell
1x Defensive spell

Undead
2x Ofensive spell (distance/bolt)
1x Ofensive spell (touch)
1x Defensive spell

Orcs n gobs
3x Ofensive spell (distance/bolt)
1x Defensive spell

High elves
4x Ofensive spell (distance/bolt)

Chaos
2x Ofensive spell (distance/bolt)
1x Ofensive spell (touch)
1x Defensive spell


Thoughts:
I see the best magic are the groups that have more ofensive distance spells (are the most easy to use and therefore the most used spell)

[robbohammer13]

Interesting way of categorizing the spells, jchaos79. Just looking at this list tells me the magic system seems balanced among the armies, and within these armies their own particular spells lend themselves to how those armies are meant to be played, IMHO.

I was about to ask, in your opinions what army has the least effective magic? However looking at the list by jchaos79, it seems pretty balanced.

[cjbennett22]

Maybe include the casting roll needed?  Who has any 4+ spells?  I know Chaos has one.

[Dave]

Most armies have a 4+, two 5+ and a 6+.

[Stormwind]

I think that magic is the messiest and least point balanced part of Warmaster, because it mixes up with command stands, and penalises "elite" armies who have limited command options.

A Chaos Sorceror or Elf Wizard is 90 points and you are only allowed 1 per 1000 points. You are also only allowed 1 command 8 hero per 1000 points.  Now the former are expensive because they have a command of 8.

An Orc shaman is 45pts, a goblin one is 30pts and you can take one of each per 1000.  But the Orc list ALSO has the option of TWO heroes with a command of 8 per 1000 points.

Wizards have a limited command range of 20cm so in an "elite" army you are wasting points on a command you don't really want to take compared with a hero, just to get the option of a single spell going off a turn.

[cjbennett22]

I always take 2 sorcerers in my chaos army.  They actually add +1 to combat (would that be the points offset you were looking at but not seeing?)  and I never had a problem with the 20cm command distance, you can move a unit 3 times in one turn if you are careful and of course lucky with the -1 and then the -2.

In the end doesn't it always come down to initiative anyways???

I am very limited in my knowledge of all of the spell casters but I will admit, they are all very different for not a lot of points difference.

Maybe they were thinking mostly about the personality of the army rather than the commanders.

Either way you look at it, with 2 spellcasters fielded with my chaos army I am lucky to get 3 spells casted in a game at all.

I was Chaos when they first came out in '99 and I still have them, very expensive to start a new army these days.

[jchaos79]

I think that magic is the messiest and least point balanced part of Warmaster, because it mixes up with command stands, and penalises "elite" armies who have limited command options.

A Chaos Sorceror or Elf Wizard is 90 points and you are only allowed 1 per 1000 points. You are also only allowed 1 command 8 hero per 1000 points.  Now the former are expensive because they have a command of 8.

An Orc shaman is 45pts, a goblin one is 30pts and you can take one of each per 1000.  But the Orc list ALSO has the option of TWO heroes with a command of 8 per 1000 points.

Wizards have a limited command range of 20cm so in an "elite" army you are wasting points on a command you don't really want to take compared with a hero, just to get the option of a single spell going off a turn.

Beware:
radius magician 20cm
radius hero 60cm
general whole battlefield

[Draccan]

With orcs and goblins getting 60 cm makes little difference