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Author Topic: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.  (Read 9627 times)

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« on: May 02, 2013, 03:01:23 AM »
Instead of proxying firestorm armada models

We should build an entire fleet with unique model rules for them
Using BFG rules

So since its been mentioned in the discussion area that we should try and come up with some rules for the Firestorm Armada ships why not work on it! Looking at their ships they follow similar lines with most of their weapons being what we would call... well weapons :P and a few special types that have added effects. Their basic cruisers are close to BFG size and all share similar common stats.

Damage Rating: how difficult it is to damage ::) (average [4] for a cruiser) - Armor

Critical Rating: how dificult it is to crit ::) (average [6] for a cruiser) - no transfer but ships with a higher rating dont take crits as easily (some kind of save maybe?) ships below average obviously take crits easier.

Movement: how fast the ship is in inches (average 8-10" for cruisers) - Speed ::)

Hitpoints: number of hits ::) (average 4 for cruisers although a few have 5) - Hits

Crewpoints: size and durability of the crew - no transfer for BFG which tracks the crew and hits as one.

Assaultpoints: how well the ship performs in boarding, number of marines carried etc - Boarding modifier

Point Defense: number of dice to roll when defending against ordinance/boarders - Turrets

Mines: some FSA ships come with mines standard - Mines

Shields: same as BFG (very few ships have shields which offer a saving throw in FSA) - Shields

Wings: Number of attack craft wings the ship can launch (this is a bit different than BFG but workable) - Launch bays

Primary weapons: almost everything has a few that have different ratings depending on the range (inches again and longer than ours *roughly 20/40/60/80 for the range bands but could be dropped to 15/30/45/60 as standard) these can be fires in arc just like ours and a few ships have rear weapons - Weapons batteries

Torpedoes: similar although there are at least two types ive seen, some that maintain the same strength just like ours and some that gain in strength the further the target is away (there are no markers used and they do not remain in play when fired, for all intents they appear to work like weapons with the range chart) it appears quite common for them to fire in all arcs with a few fixed forward. - Torpedoes

MARS: special abilities or characteristics, most ships seem to have at least one of these. These are all different but theyre also pretty clear cut for example Maneuverable lowers the distance needed to move before turning by 1".

So just quickly running through one:

Aquan Prime Storm class cruiser: (FSA) [BFG]

Type: Cruiser
Hits: (4)[8]              (4 is the average for FSA and the model is a similar size)
Speed: (10")[25cm] (well 25.4cm but come on its close and the low end is 8"/20.32cm)
Turns: (?)[45*]        (I still havent grasped the Spartan way of turning but 45cm for a cruiser seems right)
Shields: (0)[?2?]      (Im not sure where to go here, Im thinking a standard 2 shields and giving ships with shields better ones or just plain more of them)
Armor: (5)[6+]         (FSA runs from 3 for frigates-8 for dreadnaughts but all cruisers are 4 that ive seen except this one so I was thinking 4 would become 5+ and 5 would become 6+)
Turrets: (3)[2]          (I havent seen a cruiser yet that doesnt have a rating of 3 for FSA so I was thinking 2 for BFG)

Weapons:
Port/Starboard: (3/4/-/-) [8 30cm weapons L/R] this is 3 dice to hit at 20cm and 4 at 40cm o_O Im converting 20/40/60/80 to 15/30/45/60 and ignoring the less dice to hit @ 15cm as it doesnt fit the way bfg works. So 4 dice to hit @30cm works out to 7/8 weapons on the middle line of the gunnery chart.

Mines: (1 mine strength 4) [2  mine launchers] Mines work a bit differently but this allows for one launcher/ side)

Fore: (5/6/3/-) (8 45cm weapons F, 4 30cm weapons F) once again dropping the 15cm band we have 6 dice to hit at 30cm and 3 dice at 45cm. I went with firepower 8@45cm (middle line on the gunnery chart with a right shift for range: 3 dice to hit) and 4@30cm because 4+8=12@30cm middle line 6 dice to hit For ease this could be fudged to 10 45cm batteries.

Aft: (3/4/-/-) (8 30cm weapons Rear) same as the port/starboard

Torps: (4/4/4/4) (4 30cm Torpedoes all around) seems simple enough.

MARS: Maneuverable (reduce the distance to turn by 1") [reduce the distance to turn by 5cm] Also seems pretty clear cut.

Storm class cruiser
Type/Hits      Speed      Turns      Shields      Armor      Turrets
Cruiser/8       25cm        45*           2             6+            2
Armament      Range/Speed      Firepower/Strength       Arc
P/S Weapons         30cm                        8                    L/R
P/S Mines              10cm                        1                     -
Prow Weapons       45cm                        8                  Front
Prow Weapons       30cm                        4                  Front
Aft? Weapons         30cm                        8                   Rear
Dorsal? Torps         30cm                       4                      -

Notes: Aquan vessels are extremly maneuverable, as such the Storm class cruiser reduces the distance it needs to move before turning by 5cm.


So thoughts, ideas, comments? Am I just insane :D.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline fracas

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Re: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2013, 03:27:27 AM »
Since I introduced the idea I have a few questions
1. Should we just play firestorm instead and walk away from the BFG rules?
2. If we convert FSA to BFG will the two be interchangeable? As in use FSA as stand in? Or even play a aquan fleet against an ork fleet?
3. Or are we converting BFG to firestorm, meaning porting the rules but keeping the FSA fluff, thus no mixing of the two?

Average DR convert to 4+ or 5+ armor?
Advantage CR over average converts to prow armor bonus?
Keep hit points as is?
Advantage over troop average converts to boarding bonus?
All ships with one shield; those FSA models equipped with shields gets more than 2 shields?
Standard weapons as batteries?

And how do we calculate points cost?

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2013, 04:19:30 AM »
Since I introduced the idea I have a few questions
1. Should we just play firestorm instead and walk away from the BFG rules?
Well thats really the question here isnt it? I like the BFG  rules and would like to be able to use them. The FSA rules also seem quite good tho and theyre actually being updated so they will porbably improve with age.
2. If we convert FSA to BFG will the two be interchangeable? As in use FSA as stand in? Or even play a aquan fleet against an ork fleet?
I wouldnt see a problem with playing GW vs Spartan races, Spartan published rules to convert your favorite ships from other manufacturers for just that purpose.
3. Or are we converting BFG to firestorm, meaning porting the rules but keeping the FSA fluff, thus no mixing of the two? This could work too.

Average DR convert to 4+ or 5+ armor? Well I did average to average so DR4 convertes to 5+ armor. Frigates (DR3) would translate to 4+, Battleships and Dreadnaughts are 7-8 tho so I was thinking 7 would translate back to 5+ and 8 to 6+
Advantage CR over average converts to prow armor bonus? Im content to leave this alone really, I dont think any of the FSA have better armor on any of the facings.
Keep hit points as is? Well that would make a lunar sized ship 4 hits, I know scale isnt anything to really dicker over but it would be nice to have a compareable baseline. I was also thinking along the lines that the CR/HP would sort of meld into the one BFG hit point stat.
Advantage over troop average converts to boarding bonus? Thats what I was thinking, more marines makes for more killy :D.
All ships with one shield; those FSA models equipped with shields gets more than 2 shields? One shield cruisers could work, then the cruisers that have one in FSA would have two. Id have to look over the other ships to see how that would work over all but it seems reasonable.
Standard weapons as batteries?
Quote
A Broadside weapon can be listed on a
Stat Card with a Fore and Aft orientation as well as a Port
or Starboard Arc of Fire. Each Broadside weapon system
on a model could be a collection of smaller weapons, firing
from fixed gun ports or with a limited Arc of Fire and
collectively making a single Broadside, or may be a single
more powerful Rail Gun or Beam weapon. A Broadside
weapon could also include several advanced weapon types
such as Tier 2 weapon systems and Disruption Cannons.
Sounds like weapons batteries to me :)

And how do we calculate points cost? Play testing? Smotherman? probably a mix of the two
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Markconz

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Re: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2013, 08:30:08 AM »
Since I introduced the idea I have a few questions
1. Should we just play firestorm instead and walk away from the BFG rules?
I have just started BFG, and chose that over FSA based upon what I'd heard from local players about FSA being a bit simplistic in the tactial sense, and fleets being too similar to each other in play.  Googling reviews of it, this doesn't seem to be an isolated opinion, e.g. here: http://firebroadside.blogspot.co.nz/2012/01/review-of-firestorm-armada.html

2. If we convert FSA to BFG will the two be interchangeable? As in use FSA as stand in? Or even play a aquan fleet against an ork fleet?
Would be nice to be able to use FSA fleets in BFG, and BFG fleets in FSA. I imagine it would be a lot of work to create useable fleet lists for this, but that would be an ideal.

3. Or are we converting BFG to firestorm, meaning porting the rules but keeping the FSA fluff, thus no mixing of the two?
Mixing stuff up is good. I actually wonder if a future successful rule set might create "generic" fleet lists based on popular themes across ranges. E.g.
  • Imperial Humans
    Renegade/Rebel Humans
    Space Elves
    Space Orks
    Space Dwarves
    Space Undead
    Space Insectoid
    Space Octopoid/Aquatic
    Space Reptilian
    Space Rodent
    Space Feline/Canine
    Space Organic Ships
    Space Mecha Ships
    Space High Alien
    Space Phase Alien
and so on...[/color]

And how do we calculate points cost?
Comparison with existing ships and guesstimations. However can BFG-R be finished first please  ;)


Offline fracas

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Re: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2013, 11:46:28 AM »
1. Bringing FSA into BFG, making them interchangeable means FSA cruisers would have 8 hull points rather than 4, and weapon bands adjustments, etc.
2. Bringing BFG into FSA means keeping their cruiser hulls at 4 points, keeping their weapon band ratings as is, treating them as batteries thus number of dice roll will be adjusted for target facing, size, and blast markers but not range (range bands already account for this). However FSA fleet can't be matched against BFG fleets, only against other FSA fleets.

Which is preferable?

Offline horizon

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Re: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2013, 06:39:11 AM »
First one. BFG is still the key point. For me at least. Others ships should fit into 'our' game.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2013, 07:57:03 AM »
I think I like that idea the best, these could easily be pre-Imperium forces or previously unknown aliens. The good think about 40k is that its fairly easy to work around the fluff. I think the biggest problem Ive seen with the FSA ships is the lack of variety tho. Theyre all very similar at first glance when it comes to weapons.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2013, 02:52:36 AM »
Agreed. Bring them into BFG! That would be cool.

Offline fracas

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Re: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2013, 03:29:30 AM »
Ok, so we bring them into BFG. Will they represent stand ins? Or will they get new stats? And standard factions?

Terrans = Chaos
Dindrenzi = imperial
Aquans = eldar?
Relthoza = tau?
Directorate = admech?
RSN = space marines?
Sorylians = orks?

Easy to scratch build tyranids

What about necrons?



Btw do you guys know that spartan make a scifi ground combat game called planet fall (rules are free) for the firestorm universe?

« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 04:17:03 AM by fracas »

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2013, 05:15:37 AM »
I didnt know that actually, I am digging their 28mm Dystopian Wars spin off tho.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2013, 06:59:22 AM »
Fracas, any idea why it's not on their Spartan Games site? Is it brand new or something? It does look sweet.

Nevermind, I see it's preorder only at this point.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 07:03:37 AM by afterimagedan »

Offline fracas

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Re: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2013, 10:59:32 AM »
Planet fall is released under their Studio Sparta section
http://www.studiosparta.co.uk/

Offline Jimmy Zimms

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Re: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2013, 05:48:07 PM »
Planet fall is released under their Studio Sparta section
http://www.studiosparta.co.uk/

Yup. Think of Studio Sparta as Forge World (used to be) for GW.
As we Imperials say, "The Emperor [class battleship] Protects..."

Offline Cervantes3773

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Re: Firestorm Armada ships for Battlefleet Gothic.
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2013, 03:35:09 PM »
For what it's worth, I'd like to vote for "Keep BfG rules, make FSA fit into it".

I don't mind if people want to make FSA rules for BfG ships and whatnot, but I like my blast markers, order dice, and WRATH OF THE EMPEROR!!!!

Ahem.  ;D