Battleship concept

[horizon]

IN ordnance is bad? 
No NC means more torps = not bad.

[Talos]

I did not mean that it was unplayable, nearly that every race has an equal or better fighter, for instance (Tau being worse and chaos being equal but cheaper to field). The bombers are the worst (only chaos is equal, but again cheaper and orcs are debatable but arguably worse as fighters) and assault boats as well (not as punishing because many races do not even have them at all). Eldar+CWE+Dark Eldar, Tau and SM all have superior torpedoes or variety, orks have stronger waves/more waves, with chaos having noticeably less and nids being generally worse ordnance than everybody (excepting the sheer quantity), necron not having any at all.

So all in all, although IN ordnance is playable and has a place, it is generally inferior to other races.

[horizon]

But IN is attack craft plus many torpedoes
Chaos is attack craft with few torpedoes (unless you play my fleet).
marines is less attack craft and les torpedoes


Orks can do masses
Tau can do masses


In the end if you assess all the complete ordnance package will put the Imperial Navy on a balanced level.

[Talos]

I am not arguing than IN cannot field reasonable ordnance QUANTITIES. You are correct in that IN can has access to lots of large torpedo salvos, and that their AC is a tad pricey but not ridiculous. It's more that mechanically, almost every other race has superior abilities or variety to the same types, and as such although an IN torpedo salvo may be of equivalent strength to many races, each of those individual torpedoes is weaker than other races.

[Jimmy Zimms]

I think you're not getting Horizons point. Yes individually they are not so sweet and most races can put out just as much. The point I believe he is making is that turret defense is EITHER / OR so IN ordinance synergizes amazingly well together.

[AndrewChristlieb]

IN ac is very powerful. About half of the INs markers are from gunships that can spam every turn while closing, lock on and fire guns, rinse and repeat. While variety is good its not needed, you want lots of cheap spamable torps and waves of FBBB with IN. In a balanced 1500 im looking for anywhere from 2-4 FBBB waves and 36 torps along with all the guns and lances. A good example would be Emp, Dominion, Lunar, Lunar, Daunt, Daunt, 3 Cobras, 4 Cobras, F Adm.

[horizon]

Thank you Jimmy & Andrew,
With all the Imperial torps you can make 4 AC in 1500pts function.

For Tau: yes there AC is better, but that's why they lack staying power overall seen. That's why the have less gunnery, that is wht that past their front arc they are meat.

For Chaos: fields exactly the same AC but with easier access to assault boats. But much less torpedoes. IN vs Chaos is balanced on all accounts.

Marines: oh ah T-Hawk, but much less quantities and true line ships.

Eldar: They have better AC, true. Correctly so. Quality over Quantity.

Orks field fighter bombers but aren't stronger on what is ac (Orks need terror spam to be decent at AC.

Nids: easy initial access but not better or worse in what they do.

[Talos]

Interesting points, people...so is a list that includes both dominions and dictators unbalanced? Now you have me thinking IN have the best ordnance...

[AndrewChristlieb]

Not really over powered but a bit top heavy maybe. Of course for 700pts i can think of worse cores for a fleet.

[Talos]

I mean't more since is no fleet list that allows them, is that overpowered? Or do battlecruisers count as cruisers for reserves? As in can you get a dominion if you already have 3 dauntless light cruisers?

[AndrewChristlieb]

LC CA CB GC all count as cruisers for reserve purposes.

[Talos]

That is super awesome...Is a heavy ordnance fleet a bad build for IN, as in is it too weak or too cheesy?

[AndrewChristlieb]

Well that depends i guess? The CA nad CL options are ok but not the greatest all around theyre very support oriented. With the right CB, CG and BB options its probably viable.