September 27, 2024, 06:16:33 PM

Author Topic: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?  (Read 10355 times)

Offline horizon

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Re: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2012, 03:24:15 AM »
Andrew,
I never considered them valid. ;)

Thats odd, why not?
I never seen it in a rulebook, FAQ or pdf on the GW website (eg Doom of the Eldar, Ships of Mars).

In my mind Dauntless may be used as an alternative model (there was no strike cruiser at that point) with strike cruiser rules.
I know that is flawed, but my mind rewrote history like that.

Offline Talos

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Re: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2012, 04:17:08 AM »
That was my interpretation of it, little experience though I have...as for the assault boats for chaos, point in case. The rules could use some re-writing in the campaign at the very least.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2012, 07:55:26 AM »
Ah, there is a note on pg 157, under the space marine appeal chart stating that SC can be represented by Dauntless LC and BB by Emperors.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline horizon

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Re: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2012, 08:25:55 AM »
Lies! Lies!
All of it!

 ::)

Offline Cneo

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Re: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2012, 06:39:57 PM »
Ah, there is a note on pg 157, under the space marine appeal chart stating that SC can be represented by Dauntless LC and BB by Emperors.

I've done it.

One of my SC is a Dauntless, I thinks is cool to represent pre-heresy cruisers.  ;)

About the Emperors...well I can remember that Space Wolves had Emperors as BB... anyway if you want to pay the extra points it could be a Venerable BB.

IMO Imperial Battleships are very nice, more than the SM BB's.  ;)

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2012, 11:43:47 AM »
Actually the fluff almost exclusivly uses lances as the perfered method of precision strikes in support of orbital landings, you would think SM would have them comming out of their ears in that case. I dont really care either way on the lance issue tho I belive the Bomb cannon to be superior in pretty much every case as stated and this should be the only option for their ships, even if the SM fleet had access to the lance Dauntless (which they dont) its still inferior to the Strike Cruiser.

40k lance is different from BFG lance.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2012, 10:42:18 PM »
Umm ok? What does a 40k lance have to do with this at all? Or are you trying to say the 40k fluff doesnt count which being that all BFG fluff is 40k fluff...
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2012, 08:51:45 AM »
Umm ok? What does a 40k lance have to do with this at all? Or are you trying to say the 40k fluff doesnt count which being that all BFG fluff is 40k fluff...

A lance is a type of weapon mechanic in BFG. It corresponds to a class of weaponry that is specifically anti-shipping in nature. A lance in fluff is merely a pinpoint strike. A macro-laser from a ship's weapon battery would make a "lance" strike at a ground target.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2012, 12:05:02 PM »
Intersting, your related to Matt Ward?
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Talos

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Re: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2012, 03:28:31 PM »
Matt Ward, heh....what a douche. If for some reason you are Matt Ward, no offesnse. But I do hate your work.

But seriously. I don't own all 40k manuals ever released, but several dozen novels make reference to lances as being very specific and different from batteries. There are macrobatteries, plasma batteries, laser batteries, missile batteries, probably even a couple others I can't remember. But lances are pretty specific; I can't find a description near me other than my rogue trader books, which define a lance as having a massive plasma/battery based energy supply, and dozens upon dozens of specifically designed emiters and refractors generally mounted upon a turret. This creates a piercing beam of energy that rapdily cuts through any known ship armor, but inflicts little damage potential compared to betteries. This is very similar to BFG, where batteries usually have superior damage potential to lances, but are not nearly as reliable to actually inflict damage. The only races I know who don't follow this very specific description of lance are the necron and the tyrranids, who either use biological equivalents or some warp based shenanigans. The Rak'Gol are another exception, and they use extremely powerful beams of radiation to achieve the same effect.

Admittedly, I can see where laser based batteries like a sword class frigate blur the line between the two, but that is pretty much the only one. In every thing I have read, lances are used for precision targeting to destroy specific vulnerable enemy elements, bombardment cannon are souped up magmabombs used to destroy large areas and soften up an entire infrastructure before assault and nova cannons are also used in orbital bombardment; thing is, they are hard to position and only for systematically wiping out/cleaning continents, like a poor man's cyclonic torpedo most of the time. They can even destroy the planet itself, given time. All these descriptions are against ground targets, obviously.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2012, 05:55:19 PM »
Intersting, your related to Matt Ward?

Matt Ward is a fuckin moron. What I said is in no way Matt Wardish and I resent the association. Consider if they had have swapped the names of weapon batteries and lances around. Then stupid fluff bullshit wouldn't be used as an argument for SMs getting anti-ship weapons. When the SMs were released the authors even realised that they fucked up naming the weapon systems because they went out of their way to give SMs a lance replacement, because they knew that SMs shouldn't have lances. This is because a lance is used purely as an anti-ship weapon. Since fluff is full of examples of SMs making "lance" strikes from orbit one would imagine that if this was the same as the lances in BFG that the authors of the SM rules would not have gone to all that trouble to avoid giving SMs lances.

What we have here is a naming issue. You can either say that a BFG scale Lance Weapon is different to a lance strike as described in (40k!) fluff, OR you can say that they're one and the same and therefore contradict the canon fluff about the division of forces.

Offline Talos

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Re: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2012, 07:07:50 PM »
To be perfectly frank, I think its probably just a matter of different authors using different terms for different things, typical GW bullshit. As time goes on since they never standardize anything it becomes more and more convoluted as they introduce new authors who read some of the information and butcher it some more, which is then changed some more by the next batch of aspirants. As far as I am concerned, lances are the ship weapon and a lance strike is a direct attack by a lance type weapon; discrepancies are effectively just typos. Sigoroth is right to disparage the lack of consistency with the term "lance".

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: How useful is my ship, and why is it so?
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2012, 11:46:49 PM »
Enhance your calm :). No one is arguing for SM to have lances.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.