New Tau/Eldar Player!

[ThaneAquilon]

Howdy!

So I''ve just started playing recently, and I have 2 750pt fleets,though I plan on repidly expanding those. I'm learning faq2010 rules (with old BM rules) as that's what my FLGS uses, but will eventually make the move to BFG:R.

My current fleets are

Tau:
Custodian
3 Warden
2 Emissaries

usually taken with 2 RR. My opponents are cool with it being 5 pts shy of allowing the Custodian.

Eldar (MMS rules):
2 Aurora
2 Hellebore
5 Aconite

I bought my eldar before knowing rules or reading anything
I also have 1 more aconite, 2 hellebore, 2 auroras and 2 auroras that I'm going to turn into solaris' lying around, which will make a 1500pt fleet eventually, though I am buying 6-9 each of nightshades and hemlocks. and the obligatory VS.

But! I have never played my eldar, I only finished the fleet today.

My questions are for the Tau. My fleet feels very topheavy, and prevents me from effectively playing quite a few scenarios. My problem is that I HATE the protector class ship. I know when I play BFG:R I'll have to get some, just cuz of fleet list restrictions, but for now, i'd like to avoid them if possible. I have found that I quite like Tau ordinance so I plan on buying a few Explorers and Heros (which I also like) and the attendant orcas.

My question though, is does anyone have any suggestions as to balanceing my Tau list? I know my fiend is getting frustrated with the destabilising presence of the battleship at 750. I could also see it getting boring sooner rather than later, though it isn't yet. Also if anyone could point me (or write) basic Tau tactics (and advanced ones ) I'd be super appreciative.

With the Eldar list, while I'm waiting for my superior escorts, anyone have any fleet ideas with the minis I have? Shoudl I have two Light Cruisers? I'm inclined to, but then I lose many escorts. Should I replace 1 aconite with a hellebore? You know, stull like that. Also an Eldar tactic would be sweet.

Oh, and I've had 4 games with my Tau versus varying IN fleets, and have won them all, though occasionally by amazingly small margins, just luck really (warp drives).

Cheers!

[Talos]

From what I have gathered, because work has halted on BFG:R (perhaps indefinitely), most people are 2010 faq mixed with whatever elements of BFG:R they like most (ship costs and and fleet lists seem to be taken quite liberally). For instance, I have read several times from faq readers about 210pt pricing on dictator(BFG:R), in conversations otherwise all 2010 faq approved. So we should discuss that at some point.

[ThaneAquilon]

While that doesn't really affect my Tau at all, except the ability to buy torpedo bombers and such (my explorers will enjoy that), it maaay make the solaris playable. I think you'll benefit more from it than I will, however. I think my Hellebores get even more expensive

[AndrewChristlieb]

 As for your fleet being top heavy it is, quite. You have more than half your points tied into one ship (custodian 330 admiral 80 total 410 out of 750 :/). Of course the problem as you stated is they have no middle, their bottom isnt the greatest either. The Protector is just plain over priced in this, its got a weak hull, and its got way too much on its prow: launch torps guns and armor. The protector needs to be revamped as the true light cruiser it should be and priced around the upgraded space marine strike cruiser (160-175 tops). That aside a protector and a hero make good partners and a solid core for a small fleet, an explorer also would make a good core and save you some points over the custodian.

[horizon]

What goes on in this. The Compendium 2010 Tau Protector is quite frankly.... awesome. Nothing overpriced, nothing to wonky. Keep it as is. kay kay perhaps an additional fighter bay (as the model represents).
Use it as intended: a fast turning raider.

Just use it. The model is excellent as well.

For the Eldar.
With what you have the 750pts list is okay. Alternatively drop 1 Aurora and add Aconite/hellebore.

You are right it needs Nightshades & Hemlocks. Under MMS the Solaris is worhtwhile so rebuilding an Aurora into it will be cool, show us how you are going to do this.

[ThaneAquilon]

I'm considering going

1 explorer
3 orca
2 hero
1 protector

Dropping the protector for a merchant and a kor'o, or dropping a hero and adding 2-3 rerolls. Just to create a more balanced list. I'm just worried about it's durability.

As to the protector, it just seems too all around. It doesn't have a given task, and is only okay at any given task, which makes me loath to commit it. It can't out gun a lunar, can't out ordinance a dictator. It can't outmanoeuvre a dauntless. So I suppose my dislike is born form confusion as to its use.

I have 2 unassembled Auroras that I'm considering turning into Solaris', which would he a pretty simple procedure.

[horizon]

? The Protector can focus more guns on a single target then the Lunar. The Manta is resilient. The missiles are faster and can turn. The ship can turn 90 degrees itself. It can eat Dauntless with guns and ordnance. It also has 3 turrets.

Mind you, do not compare to the hero as that is one of the worst designs in bfg. Fluffwise poorer then a lunar but in game same points and far far better then the lunar.

Yes, I am a protector fan. In large games it needs staying power in the fleet (custodian) but in small games it is a totl killer due turns and guns and missiles.

[ThaneAquilon]

Hmmm well I may give them a try, but if I replace my two emissaries with one, I feel like it just won't be able to protect my fleet properly, it would need more hits. And it can focus more fire, yes, but the lunar has 2 broadsides and a prowess, the protector has just a prow.

[ElectricPaladin]

I am also a new Tau player and I would love a unit profile written by an experienced player, if anyone reading this is one of those...

[horizon]

Hmmm well I may give them a try, but if I replace my two emissaries with one, I feel like it just won't be able to protect my fleet properly, it would need more hits. And it can focus more fire, yes, but the lunar has 2 broadsides and a prowess, the protector has just a prow.

Hey,
the Emissary packs a punch for its cost. Yet, I feel the speed is still wrong at 20cm. It should be 25cm given the task of the vessel (dipomacy/exploration).
anyho.
If I hit an Emissary 3 times... it is crippled. That is a fragile ship to do protection.
A Protector must be hit 5 times. Still not impressive but it stays longer.

Now given the fleet setup you chose, the Emissary does balance it out better then a single Protector. Mainly due the Custodian being more then half the points within 750pts.

As for the last part, yes the Lunar has broadsides. But imagine a 1:1 duel: the Lunar can only ever fire 1 broadside. And if the Lunar engages with broadsides, the torpedoes are out of it. 
So, in a larger game the Lunar would gain some if you drive it up between the enemy fleet. But then it gets more complicated as all fleets have different tactical plays.

[ThaneAquilon]

I know the emissary packs a punch, I love using them (I also love the models) but I was under the impression that it only needed to take 2 hits to be crippled, and the protector only needed three. So incidentally if you can give me a reference to something that suggests it must be under half it's total hits, that would be awesome. I also think it should be faster, but I can deal with it being only 20sm.

The emissaries can also be offensive for longer, if one gets crippled, the other can keep going.

I also am considering for a larger game, as I plan on expanding my fleet, but I suppose none of my ships will ever be able to give the same output on broadsides as an IN ship, but will out gun it on the front.

Oh and thanks for responses everyone, it's been helpful.

[AndrewChristlieb]

3 hits on the emissary (1 shield 2 hull to crip) 5 on protector (2 shield 3 hull)

[ThaneAquilon]

Ahhhh thanks for the clarification.