Trying to make rules for my Fluff cruiser Pinar del Rio

[Castro]

Hey guys!

So for those who haven't seen, I made a whole Battlefleet for my Kuban Chapter - Battlefleet Caridad. Now, the big momma ship you see in the beggining (The Havana) is my model for the Sedito Opprimere, however, and Guantanamo is a standard battlebarge, however, Pinar Del Rio is supposed to represent the pinnacle of communications warfare and sniping.

I have had a back and forth with some DakkaDakka members and have come up with a somewhat base for the ship. I want to keep the at, or below, 450, as a sister capitol ship can't be worth more than the Biggest brother capitol ship 

(for those that want to see pictures its right here http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=4600.0 ... scroll a bit down to see the Battlebarge Pinar del Rio)

These are the rules that I somewhat settled on - basically what do you guys thing of it (should I modify, change, blah blah blah  )

Pinar del Rio 450 Pts
Type/hits: Battleship/12 Speed: 20 cm Turns: 45* Shields: 4 Armour: 6+ Turrets: 4

Port Weapons Battery                 30cm           6            Port
Stbrd Weapons Battery               30cm           6            Starboard
Dorsal Bombardment Cannons    60cm           4            Front/Left/Right
Prow Lance Batteries Cannons    60cm           4            Front
Prow Nova Cannon                     30-150cm   Special     Front

And then I have (for the large sensor arrays) this rule or the other one (or both)
"The ships Forward advanced targetting arrays accuratly allow plotting of long range un-propelled shells at huge distances. At any point during your turn, you can switch the ammo of the ship. All Dorsal mounted bombardment cannons have there range tripled to 90cm & there Firepower reduced by -2 to reflect the shells having to travel farther than expected."

and this rule - "This ship does not randomly generate its own leadership value. It is leadership 8 at all times, this ship, when taking a command check for special orders, gains +2 LD instead of the +1LD for "enemy contact!" This ship rolls for target priority on an unmodified LD 10. Once a turn, it can give any ally ship a reroll on any leadership it is called to take.

Now I before I get yelled at, I KNOW space marines rarely, if never, use lances on their ships - but I am sure that because of the fluff of this ship it should be allowed no  - I mean, if not, what would replace those very large cannons in the front of the ship 

[commander]

I see the mention of 'chapter', so
Prow nova cannon AND prow lances? Bombardment cannons R60?
And that's OK?

Don't think so. Trying to fit anything on a battle barge, are you?

But, having not enough time at the moment, I will comment on this design this evening (here in Belgium).

[Castro]

I see the mention of 'chapter', so
Prow nova cannon AND prow lances? Bombardment cannons R60?
And that's OK?

Don't think so. Trying to fit anything on a battle barge, are you?

But, having not enough time at the moment, I will comment on this design this evening (here in Belgium).

Bah this is literally the first... pre first... draft that I compiled in less then a day of conversations. Again I have my Ship havana that is the brawler (Sedito Opprimere), I have the Guantanamo which is the Standard all around ship (Normal Battlebarge) and then I have the Pinar del Rio (the sensor/sniping battlebarge). I really wanted to emulate its ability to stay the hell back, sense the battle, and snipe low ships - but with its huge cannon on the bottom I definitely want to include some sort of nova cannon - if not, I count 4 guns in the front (two from the multi melta hanging on the bottom and two off to the front/side bottom of the ship which are just hacked up bolters with holes in em) - I can say these are 4 lances and ignore the nova cannon?

I await your awesome feedback though - I am not - repeat NOT - great at making rules, which makes me a prime candidate for a FW job (ouch  )

[Sigoroth]

Ditch the concept and redo the conversion. SMs shouldn't have a "sniping ship", SMs shouldn't have lances, SMs shouldn't have Nova Cannon.

[Castro]

Ditch the concept and redo the conversion. SMs shouldn't have a "sniping ship", SMs shouldn't have lances, SMs shouldn't have Nova Cannon.

Just assume that they stole it from another ship - They are Kubans of course and use anything at their disposal.

If I do ditch the design, I DO NOT wanna ditch the conversion. Is there any way to make this battlebarge a sniping ship with many highly designed sensor arrays - any help would be awesome!

I know this is completely contradictory with Space Marine Fluff - but I will never use this ship in a tournament, so I just wanted friendly rules at 450 points. So I wanna keep the Nova Cannon (I can just make it a mega magma cannon that shoots a large bombardment cannon shell aha!), but I really want to keep at least longggggg range weapon batteries, even if they are bombardment cannons.

[horizon]

Hi,

I agree with Sigoroth here. Lances & Nova Canons are a no-no for Marines. The Inquisition will erase your chapter.

60cm batteries is okay.

[AndrewChristlieb]

I dont remember the space wolves getting erased for using a captured Mars for over a thousand years (complete with nova and 60cm lances). Theres really nothing to say space marines cannot have nova or lance and many of the chapters have in their fluff had ships jusy like the Fist of Russ. Thats why VBB were introduced afterall wasnt it? If thr haters want to be haters tho just call it an Apoc VBB last i checked that was still legal and it packs way more punch than what your looking at.

[Castro]

I dont remember the space wolves getting erased for using a captured Mars for over a thousand years (complete with nova and 60cm lances). Theres really nothing to say space marines cannot have nova or lance and many of the chapters have in their fluff had ships jusy like the Fist of Russ. Thats why VBB were introduced afterall wasnt it? If thr haters want to be haters tho just call it an Apoc VBB last i checked that was still legal and it packs way more punch than what your looking at.

All this fluff aside - Can someone please hep modify the stats above to reflect a ship that is more likely to be a 450 (or less) space marine battlebarge, has sniping components to it (I don't care if they are low powered but long range to balance it out) and a large amount of sensors on the ship.

BTW for those scrunching their noses at the 60cm bombardment cannons, remember that it is only 4, and it decreases to 2 if I want to go to 90

[commander]

A bit later as I expected myself.
Right, the Pinar del Rio. Purely friendly games, just for flavor of the chapter.

As Sigoroth and Horizon already mentioned, the weapon systems are not typical Marine ones. Also, this is not a captured ship but a 'standard' battle barge. What can be done?

Sensors could give the ship a stackable +1 Ld for special orders, to a max of 10. Maybe even a left shift on the gunnery table if you also consider it an advanced targeting matrix.
I would keep the original weaponry of the battle barge but you could switch the LB and Torpedoes for a powerful front weapons  battery up to R60, at least S6 up to a max of 10.

[Castro]

How about if I said that in the fluff, this space marine chapter has been known to take any spoils of war (or if they find it), including wreckages of allies ships, and pillage/utilize it on their own ships. For example, they have been known to convert  some of their tanks to aquatic vehicles in order for them to launch covert missions across bodies of water (see what I did there  )

I KNOW space marines don't ever use lances, I know the Inquisition would be so far up their hole that they would be crapping inquisitorial symbols - but if its just for the full of the chapter, and they steal/recycle/"use" things around to refit their ship, could it not be said that they may have "recycled" (another word for pillage) the wreckage of a Imperial ship with a nova cannon and maybe, since it is such a secretive project of the space marines and it only stays back to survey and snipe if need be, it is barely known about it :3

I know it hurts to think about it, but help me out a bit with at least a nova cannon on a Battlebarge (then ignore the lances). Maybe instead I can refit it too look like this:

Pinar del Rio 450 Pts
Type/hits: Battleship/12 Speed: 20 cm Turns: 45* Shields: 4 Armour: 6+ Turrets: 4

Port Weapons Battery                 30cm           5             Port
Stbrd Weapons Battery               30cm           5             Starboard
Dorsal Bombardment Cannons    45cm           4             Front/Left/Right
Prow Weapon Batteries               60cm           10 (or Front
Prow Nova Cannon                     30-150cm   Special      Front

The ships Forward advanced targetting arrays accuratly allow plotting of long range un-propelled shells at huge distances. At any point during your turn, you can switch the ammo of the ship. All Dorsal mounted bombardment cannons have there range doubled to 90cm & there Firepower reduced by -2 to reflect the shells having to travel farther than expected

This ship does not randomly generate its own leadership value. It is leadership 8 at all times, this ship, when taking a command check for special orders, gains +2 LD instead of the +1LD for "enemy contact!" This ship rolls for target priority on an unmodified LD 10. Once a turn, it can give any ally ship a reroll on any leadership it is called to take.

how about that 

[AndrewChristlieb]

I still think the weapons load out would best fit your original intentions with 8 dorsal weapons batteries@ 60cm 2 prow lances at 60cm 1 nova cannon and the broadsides of your choice. Then add a generic +1 to leadership and maybe a column shift for good measure.

I thought you were basing the idea for the model off of the Eternal Crusader which is a battlebarge that over 10000 years of war has been expanded and modified to the point that it is considered a fortress monastery. I dont see any problem assuming that another chapter was able to modify one of their ships. As for the weapons yes theyre rare and yes they are not very common for space marines but come on its not like hes talking about a ship thats going to break the game. This ship would have nothing in common with the rest pf the fleet and would be extreamly vulnerable to flanking plus given its weapons load it would most likely be apart from the rest of the fleet. 

[Brethren]

Hey Castro,

I've got a suggestion... if somewhat a bit late.
Since you've got the Seditio Opprimere, I guess you're working with the FAQ2010.
So just take the stats of a Despoiler class battleship and turn it into a venerable battlebarge. That way you'll get Thunderhawks as well as long range lances & batteries for less than 450 points. Now who was saying that SM can't get lances and long range firepower?
Of course you won't get 6+ armour or bombardment cannons, but this could be a somewhat more 'gentle' way to confront other players with this ship.

On the other hand, if the friends you game with agree to your approach... screw the opinions of every forum and every other player, you don't have get along with. 

Hoping that I didn't offend someone else,

Brethren

[horizon]

Hi,
the Faq2010 Seditio is good/cool. The old seditio was pure horror.